Vanoord
13 years ago
My understanding is that the drop fault is responsible for a band of shattered rock, but I could be wrong.

From the very little of the workings that are accessible in that part of the mountain, I suspect that the workings are likely to be very shattered. Certainly the area around the little incline is somewhere that you wouldn't want to cough, never mind sneeze!

What you have to remember is that the mine was dug out over a hundred years ago and that they built it to last as long as they were extracting - that so much of it survives in such good condition is remarkable; and that some of it is a shattered mess is hardly surprising.
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
grahami
13 years ago
Little incline ?

I'll come back on the plans aspect later on - just a bit busy at the moment.

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Vanoord
13 years ago
"grahami" wrote:

Little incline ?



DE to F in Chamber 20, New Vein I think?
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
grahami
13 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:

"grahami" wrote:

Little incline ?



DE to F in Chamber 20, New Vein I think?



Ah - will check. Without looking, thought that was only a manway down a forebreast!

Cheers in haste

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Vanoord
13 years ago
"grahami" wrote:

"Vanoord" wrote:

"grahami" wrote:

Little incline ?



DE to F in Chamber 20, New Vein I think?



Ah - will check. Without looking, thought that was only a manway down a forebreast!

Cheers in haste

Grahami



Ah no, it's a very small incline - with, if I recall correctly, the remains of some sort of walls at the top of it, although there's a massive fall immediately behind it.

The rock is not in the best of states around there - it looks as if someone has let a bomb off in there...
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
simonrl
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13 years ago
Are we talking about the short incline down to F that leads to the "timbered tunnel of death" here Vanoord?
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Vanoord
13 years ago
"simonrl" wrote:

Are we talking about the short incline down to F that leads to the "timbered tunnel of death" here Vanoord?



Yes.

Although the whole area is deathly, quite frankly.
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
simonrl
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13 years ago
The route taking the right turn at the entrance to the TTOD is quite spectacular. It involves squeezing under a slab propped up on the timbers, and then side-stepping your way through further timbers in a way that, for anybody who has seen Oceans 12, will bring the laser beam sequence to mind ๐Ÿ˜ฎ
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
grahami
13 years ago
Got it.

That's chamber 20 Old Vein, by the way. The incline was one of two which were constructed to connect DE floor, which had been cut off the great fall of 1882-3-4 and allow rock from there to get through via F floor, which was a little better. The other was in chamber 14 Old vein. (That was the first, but the fall wouldn't stop....)

That's a very old part of the quarry you have there. I don't recall you posting any photos ?????
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
simonrl
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13 years ago
I don't think I've ever taken a photo of the incline itself, but this photo:

[photo]Oakeley-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-48143[/photo]

Shows the branch to the incline, this is looking along DE towards Oakeley (back to Cwmorthin), the right fork is the main DE level, the left leads after another left turn to the incline.

The incline intersects DE approximately parallel to the main drag, and drops down to F floor where the level branches left and right.

A view along the level back in the Cwmorthin direction (the Colonel's photo - I imagine this would have reached all the way back to the Ch 34 incline, however is now collapsed after about 200 meters)

[photo]Oakeley-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-001[/photo]
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
grahami
13 years ago
Map extract

In great haste

๐Ÿ”—Personal-Album-54-Image-72657[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-72657[/linkphoto][/link]

North at bottom - new vein up and under!

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
hymac580c
13 years ago
A Cwmorthin book just sold on ebay for ยฃ63. Amazing how popular this book has been.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280824682312?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 
Bellach dim ond swn y gwynt yn chwibian, lle bu gynt yr engan ar cynion yn tincian.
dwarrowdelf
13 years ago
Thanks Vanoord, Graham and Simon for all the new and interesting information about the little incline area and shattered tunnels, which certainly appear to be off the beaten track a bit. I would have liked to have had a careful (and quiet!) look at this area at some point, but from what I understand people are now being discouraged from crossing the Cwm/Oakeley boundary collapse (?)
Anyhow any extra information about Cwm/Oakeley is is most welcome and adds greatly to my understanding ๐Ÿ™‚
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
dwarrowdelf
13 years ago
Graham,
I can't seem to enlarge you map
๐Ÿ˜ž
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
Vanoord
13 years ago
"dwarrowdelf" wrote:

Graham,
I can't seem to enlarge you map
:(



Does this work:

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/supersize/Personal-Album-54-Image-72657/ 


Hello again darkness, my old friend...
JohnnearCfon
13 years ago
Yes, it does, thanks Vanoord. I was going to look in Graham's personal album, but hadn't got a round tewit yet.
dwarrowdelf
13 years ago
Afraid the link still not working for me ๐Ÿ˜ข
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
Vanoord
13 years ago
"dwarrowdelf" wrote:

Afraid the link still not working for me ;(



Try refreshing the page, should work?
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
dwarrowdelf
13 years ago
Many thanks, Vanoord, worked! ๐Ÿ™‚
Never seen these details before, I have seen other plans which include this area of the quarry, but they omitted much of this including some of the chambers.
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
grahami
13 years ago
"dwarrowdelf" wrote:

Many thanks, Vanoord, worked! ๐Ÿ™‚
Never seen these details before, I have seen other plans which include this area of the quarry, but they omitted much of this including some of the chambers.



I obviously need to explain a bit here.

In the first instance of course Oakeley worked in general in all three veins, from South to North: New, Old and Back. In some areas there were additional workings in the Little Vein (between Old and Back), in the North Vein and in the so-called GlanyPwll Vein. In some places there are thus three lots of workings "on top of one another" from a mapping perspective. In addition, many of the chambers etc. were intersected by "whinstone dykes" which cut through the vein at a steep angle and effectively divided up the chamber into separate parts. In some cases the dyke was worked away, in other cases a level was driven through the dyke and the chamber re-opened underneath it, and in other cases the dyke was left in place and a new openeing level driven east west underneath it with no connection to the original opening level under the main hard which formed the original roof.

In a nutshell this means that it is not usually possible (except for early dates) to show all the workings in a given area on one diagram. From the 1880s onwards plans were first of all drawn up separately for the Old Vein and the Back Vein - New Vein workings were initially added to the Old Vein plans and North Vein to the Back Vein plans. Eventually, especially in the Lower Quarry (Ex-Welsh SLate Co), the extent of the New Vein workings became such that separate plans were prepared for Old and New Veins.

Thus my drawings of the New Vein workings in chambers 11 to 20 from floor DE up to floor 5 do not show the Old Vein or Back Vein workings which lay above them. These New Vein chambers were cut into two or even three sections by the whinstone dykes and a fulll diagram is difficult to unscramble.


Here's a cross section of chamber 18 produced in 1895. Note the workings in Back and Old Veins - not shown here is the current extnet of chamber 18 New Vein - which had just been opened at this time. However, now it extends from at least Floor F to above floor 3 - with the top possibly as high as floor 5. (Actually the part from F up to DE was latterly back filled, but that doesn't change my point.)

๐Ÿ”—Personal-Album-54-Image-72720[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-72720[/linkphoto][/link]
Hope this makes sense, I'll post another diagram or two if I get a chance.

Cheers

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.

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