As there are one or two here familar with welsh, may I ask a question on how to refer to features named in welsh, in an english text?

If I want to describe a railway bridge, for example, that crosses a stream, is it better to refer to the bridge crossing "THE Nant Byfre", or crossing "Nant Byfre". Is the definite article wrong? In english we would say crossing THE xyz brook.

Why I am not sure is because it seems awkward to say "crossing THE Cwm Rhondda", for example, whereas "crossing Cwm Rhondda" seems correct.

Maybe I have a mental block from thinking about it too much!

I suspect that, as a rule of thumb, you should drop the English definitive article. If appropriate, try to use the Welsh definitive article y or yr or 'r.
You're on the right lines when you write that "crossing Cwm Rhondda" seems correct.

Thanks, Gwyn. I suppose it is down to whether I use the word Nant or the word Stream.

Crossing "the Byfre stream", or Crossing "Nant Byfre". I prefer the latter as it is more "loyal" to the placename.

Writing the whole thing in welsh is a further alternative that is beyond me!

I would use Crossing Nant y Byfre 😉

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I think I'll ask my "man on the spot" - it will be interesting to see how a "local" would say it. Watch this space!

from experience of working in South Wales, I usually use the welsh form - ie without the definitive article. Non-welsh speakers ( who are, after all, around 85% of the population of the Principality ) either don't care either way, or appreciate the gesture, and it saves you a lot of heartburn and general "nuisance value" with those who do speak it.

15 years ago I wouldn't have done that, but these days the welsh forms are much more widely employed on various forms of documentation. Since I usually take the view that the name of a place is any name by which it can be unambiguously identifed by whoever you are addressing, for the purpose of the exercise, either form will do.



I've followed the same principle in places like the Trans-Caspian - where for practical purposes, place-names are the English version and/or the Roman-alphabet transliteration of the Russian version, where these differ significantly. If the contract is a Russian-language one, I don't need to know anyway, because my Russian isn't sufficient for me to be employed on it.



in African countries I would generally use either the current form, or the current local form plus the former name, where both are still in use or the local form isn't sufficiently known to third parties outside the country

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