Miners Tools.· Page 3 · AditNow Community

WINDERLICH
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

7 years ago

Interesting variation between the pics by MORLOCK or from ROY - the two poll picks I have are noticeably different. The pick itself is much longer and maybe slimmer than the one shown, and the hammer-piece opposite is also a lot shorter. The cheek-piece is not tubular as shown, but flatter, more supportive of the handle.
Also, how do I attach the pics of these items to my email - doesn't seem to work for me... :oops:

GeoWill World
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#42

[Frederick_K._Lutgens,_Edward_J._Tarbuck,_Dennis_G(z-lib.org).pdf - 151.8 MB

pwhole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#43

We found this splendid example whilst excavating the shaft at Longcliffe - it was buried in the rubble about 10m below the original start level and 10m above the eventual floor, so most likely it was in or around the hillock when it collapsed. Rusty as hell, but came up lovely after some expert cleaning by AR. We found plenty more stuff of various vintages, but this was one of the best pieces. The National Trust archaeological team currently have it, but it will go on display somewhere eventually.

🔗120163[linkphoto]120163[/linkphoto][/link]

🔗120164[linkphoto]120164[/linkphoto][/link]

speculator
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#44

Need help. How do I add photos to new or old topics have one to start with with this topic,? OK there is the image tab above but how do I use it? Indeed how do I add new pics to the gallery. Sorry to be so dim.

sinker
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#45

"speculator" wrote:
Need help. How do I add photos to new or old topics have one to start with with this topic,? OK there is the image tab above but how do I use it? Indeed how do I add new pics to the gallery. Sorry to be so dim.

Easiest is to upload it to your personal album :thumbup:

Then go to the album, select the photo you want to add and then scroll down to the bottom of the page; you will see some code under the photo. Copy / paste the code into the forum post.

Yma O Hyd....

inbye
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#46

"pwhole" wrote:
We found this splendid example whilst excavating the shaft at Longcliffe - it was buried in the rubble about 10m below the original start level and 10m above the eventual floor, so most likely it was in or around the hillock when it collapsed. Rusty as hell, but came up lovely after some expert cleaning by AR. We found plenty more stuff of various vintages, but this was one of the best pieces. The National Trust archaeological team currently have it, but it will go on display somewhere eventually.

🔗120163[linkphoto]120163[/linkphoto][/link]

🔗120164[linkphoto]120164[/linkphoto][/link]

That's an ancient tool. Can't blow it up enough before losing resolution, so can't tell grain structure from corrosion but it looks to be made from wrought iron. It would regularly be sharpened by the Blacksmith, who would also occasionally address the mushrooming to the hammer face, so that suggests it's a softer material.
If that had been used in the West Yorkshire coalfield it would be known as a "Peggy".

Regards, John...

Huddersfield, best value for money in the country, spend a day there & it'll feel like a week........

rufenig
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#47

For those not familiar,
These, and similar tools are sharpened by heating the tip and drawing (hitting with a hammer on an anvill) to a point, or chisel shape.

They were not ground, that was too wastefull.

AR
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#48

The Longcliffe poll pick is definitely wrought iron, that wood-grain pattern that forms as it corrodes is characteristic. I could just about see the line on the point where the steel tip had been fire-welded in when I cleaned it up. Steel was expensive prior to the late 19th century, hence using a small piece in a body of cheaper wrought and Rufenig's comment about sharpening by reforging (and retempering) rather than grinding.

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

pwhole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#49

We also found this pick at roughly the same time and depth, though we were never quite as certain on whether this one was as old. The near tip does seem to be 'peeling' back though like wrought iron might.

🔗120165[linkphoto]120165[/linkphoto][/link]

inbye
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#50

"pwhole" wrote:
We also found this pick at roughly the same time and depth, though we were never quite as certain on whether this one was as old. The near tip does seem to be 'peeling' back though like wrought iron might.

🔗120165[linkphoto]120165[/linkphoto][/link]

That's an odd looking thing (to my eyes, from a coal background) it's very "meaty" in the body. Also, using the hand for scale, the hole where the helve passes through looks very small, almost too small for a two handed pick.
Seen something like it before, could it have been discarded by a (fairly) modern rock hound?

Regards, John...

Huddersfield, best value for money in the country, spend a day there & it'll feel like a week........

AR
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#51

I didn't think the double-head pick was old when I looked at it, and I'm sure it's cast steel, not wrought iron. There are known to have been very small picks used in lead mining and there is an area in Longcliffe that shows the characteristic "woodpecker" picking from such a small pick, but not with this one - 20th century to my reckoning.

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

inbye
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#52

"AR" wrote:
I didn't think the double-head pick was old when I looked at it, and I'm sure it's cast steel, not wrought iron. There are known to have been very small picks used in lead mining and there is an area in Longcliffe that shows the characteristic "woodpecker" picking from such a small pick, but not with this one - 20th century to my reckoning.

I think that's spot on, those angular shoulders smack of drop forging, don't believe it's of any great age.
I'd forgotten about those woodpecker picks, lockdown is addling the grey matter....

Regards, John...

Huddersfield, best value for money in the country, spend a day there & it'll feel like a week........

allanr
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#53

Judging by the small size of the socket for the handle, I would think that the handle would have been 10 inches to a foot long.
It looks like a masons pick to me.

Hattlebags
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#54

This is the Coat of Arms of The Society of Mines Royal which dates to 1568. The miners tools are of interest. The miners on the left and in the central panel have a pair of tools which each has a pick head and a hammer head. Remember these guys were working in very hard rock without use of explosives.

🔗120166[linkphoto]120166[/linkphoto][/link]

The chap on the top shield seems to be carrying a magnetic compass in his sinister hand and an inclinometer in his Dexter hand. The chap on the right is probably a smelter and he is wearing protective clothing and carrying a long handled fork for use in the heat of the smelting process.

They all have curious headwear which may well be a hood stuffed with padding. This would serve to protect and insulate their heads underground. The miners also wear a Miners Apron, which is a leather garment that protects your backside when working underground.

pwhole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#55

"AR" wrote:
I didn't think the double-head pick was old when I looked at it, and I'm sure it's cast steel, not wrought iron. There are known to have been very small picks used in lead mining and there is an area in Longcliffe that shows the characteristic "woodpecker" picking from such a small pick, but not with this one - 20th century to my reckoning.

It's interesting the variety of ages of the things we found - that smaller pick was buried as deeply as the obviously older one, but we also found an intact Whittaker's of Matlock Bath lemonade bottle, which was definitely 20th Century, but also buried very deeply in the shaft fill.

It's possible that the small pick was used by someone furtling around the shaft top before Trevor Ford and Dick Howes opened it up - maybe the Derbyshire Pennine Club, though I've always struggled to see why they were unable to open the shaft in 1909 when they were exploring up there, given it could only have been in better condition than it was in 1943! Alternatively it was used by a caver between 1944 and 1955, or a fossil hunter perhaps, and they left it on the hillock just before it collapsed! Baffling. We have a small museum of all the junk we pulled out now.

speculator
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#56

[photo]120184[/photo]
[photo]120185[/photo]

Thanks to Sinker and my Son-in-law I've uploaded photos of recent acquisitions. The picks from a local charity shop and the hammer from an old village rubbish tip near Banbury. The hammer looks to be blacksmith made. Any further identification welcome.

AR
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#57

The big one looks like a hammer pick rather than a poll pick (i.e. the hammer end is for hitting things, while a poll pick is struck with a hammer) while the small one is possibly a mason's pick as mentioned above. As for the hammer, old blacksmith-made hammers tend to be wrought iron with the striking face fire-welded on so look out for a line in the corrosion. I've got a hammer that was found out of context on the Watergrove engine house dig that's like that.

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

speculator
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#58

The hammer head is so mushroomed and the claw so curled that I don't think any steel was ever involved. My feeling is that it was made from recycled iron in the days when that was common practice and I would love to see a modern smith make one from scratch.

inbye
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#59

Yes, the claw hammer has some age to it, almost sure to be blacksmith made. I think the small pick is a modern mortar pick, used by builders to rake out old mortar before re pointing work. The old hammer pick is the kind of thing I've seen used by underground track layers but could just as well be used by the "big house " for breaking lumps of coal.

Regards, John...

Huddersfield, best value for money in the country, spend a day there & it'll feel like a week........

AR
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

5 years ago

#60

"speculator" wrote:
The hammer head is so mushroomed and the claw so curled that I don't think any steel was ever involved. My feeling is that it was made from recycled iron in the days when that was common practice and I would love to see a modern smith make one from scratch.[/quote

Making a 3lb cross-peen hammer from a lump of steel was one of the training pieces I did at Hereford College 20 years ago, I'd expect it's still done. The eye is punched through and drifted out to size, then the face and the peen worked to the right size; finally the face was oil-quenched.

I can imagine a lot of hammers where the face wouldn't be hitting anything too hard or a smooth face didn't matter too much would be fabricated from any available iron. The eye could either be drifted or maybe the hammer could be made axe-fashion by bending the iron round a mandrel and fire-welding together. If that claw hammer is a locally made general carpentry hammer then I can imagine it might be unsteeled wrought iron. Also bear in mind that as well as professional smiths, some farms and smallholdings would have their own smithing kit - I have an anvil and blower that came from an now-deceased bloke in my home village who used to make his own horseshoes and oddments of metalwork
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!