Has any sampling and analysis been done on the Hard Level effluvium?

If its contaminants that are worrying the Powers That Be, there are two Smelt Mills, one spar tailings pond, and a whole crowd of spoil tips in the valley, all oozing heavy metals into the Swale.

And I'll bet my hat that any messing about with them would only make things worse!

MARK

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There's an interesting report online somewhere regarding mine pollution in Gunnerside Gill which will certainly mention the Old Gang workings on that side of the watershed though I can't remember it discussing Hard Level & the likes.

This one :-
http://www.coulthard.org.uk/downloads/iandennisthesis.htm 

Abstract

This investigation examines the impact of historical metal mining on the River Swale
catchment, North Yorkshire, U.K. Approximately 550,000 tonnes of Pb were extracted
from mines in the Swale catchment during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.
Mining and processing operations were relatively inefficient, leading to the discharge of
large quantities of metal-rich sediment into the fluvial system. The primary aim of this
thesis is to assess the physical and chemical impacts of the discharge of metals from
historical mining activities on the River Swale catchment as a whole. The dispersal,
storage and transfer of metal-rich sediment in formerly mined tributaries, floodplain and
flood sediments are evaluated, and the environmental consequences of mining are
assessed.
A detailed geochemical survey of the River Swale catchment indicates that channel and
floodplain sediments within formerly mined tributaries exhibit extremely high
concentrations of Pb, Zn and Cd. Similar enrichment is observed in floodplain sediments
from throughout the catchment, suggesting that large volumes of material have been
transported from the tributaries and deposited on the Swale floodplain. Evidence from
contemporary flood sediments suggests that considerable quantities of metal-rich sediment
continue to be cycled through the system almost 100 years after the cessation of mining
operations. Sediment budgeting suggests that 32,000 tonnes of Pb remain stored in
formerly mined tributaries, with a further 123,000 tonnes stored in the Swale floodplain.
Combined storage represents more than half of the total Pb that is likely to have been
released during mining operations, suggesting that the impacts of metal mining are
extremely long-lasting. Concentrations of Pb, Zn and Cd in tributary, floodplain and flood
sediments greatly exceed current U.K. environmental quality guidelines and catchment specific
background values. Metal enrichment as a result of historical mining operations
could therefore pose a serious and long-term threat to plant and animal health in the Swale
catchment.

In the past companies doing this sort of work have approached NAMHO who have passed on work to those with the requisite knowledge. I did a couple of jobs that way, the final client being the Environment Agency.
Of course you are getting on dodgy ground if this work requires going into a mine as paid work, which would then become a "working" mine with all the M&QA requirements, our work was really a desktop study using our own records/knowledge from previous leisure activities.
The final conclusion of one of those projects (regarding possible issues from tips & shallow workings in the Tamar Valley) was its' best to leave things well alone.
One area that is of concern is where a geotechnical consultancy with no real experience of underground work is approached by a landowning body regarding suitability of a site for access by cavers/mine explorers. Not surprisingly, they are quite likely to say no, depending on their prejudices.
It would appear we have lost access to at least one site as a result.

Yorkshireman says,

"I doubt whether there are many (any?) hydrogeologists who are qualified to crawl around underground :-)

He could even be far enough up the corporate ladder to commission somebody who is (and pay for the services!)".


They do exist, we have a crop of them in Derbyshire
Les

We do indeed, although, alas we have lost a couple over the last few years. :(

I suspect that any hydrogeologist who studied under Dr. T. D. Ford OBE at Leicester Uni. is competent underground.

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I was approached a few years ago by a consultancy who were trying to ascertain the status of a large blockage in a well-known Cumbrian mine, and found themselves in a Catch-22 situation. Whilst the locality in question was technically accessible, HSE requirements precluded any form of in-site investigation, so a way round the roadblock was to try to obtain the information from enthusiastic amateurs and form an opinion using this 'grey' information.

OTOH, we need to be very careful not to shoot ourselves in the foot by reporting information which may bring down a ton of official action!

MARK

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OTOH, we need to be very careful not to shoot ourselves in the foot by reporting information which may bring down a ton of official action!

MARK

I would have thought the very mention of doing work for the CA was enough of a warning of Official Action.

I think the speculation is running a bit out of hand here.

I searched the AMEC website as suggested and only got one hit:
0 results within Offices for 'craig speed'
Sorry, no results were found
1 results within Careers for 'craig speed'
How do I recognise a scam/fake recruitment offer?
Scammers search websites looking for job seekers and potential victims. Once identified, a series of bogus email messages are forwarded culminating in what appears to be a lucrative employment offer....
0 results within People for 'craig speed'
Sorry, no results were found
0 results within News for 'craig speed'
Sorry, no results were found
0 results within Sectors and Services for 'craig speed'
Sorry, no results were found
0 results within Investors for 'craig speed'
Sorry, no results were found
0 results within Other for 'craig speed'
Sorry, no results were found

I put in Roy Fellows and got some different random hits. Seems they have heard of me but not their own Senior Consultant Hydrogeologist, what a strange world we live in.

The fact that they don't consider me a scammer makes me very happy.
:lol:

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:lol::lol::lol:

Thats the result I got Roy:thumbup:

Thats why I posted.

So glad you're not a scammer :lol::lol::thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Hi Craig

My interest in the mine is distinctly amateur though I do have a reasonable working knowledge of underground conditions there. If you want any general background, please feel free to send me a pm. Or even continue to ask within the thread where you'll be likely to receive a wider response. But the situation is not far off that described by John Lawson & ChrisJC above.

Rich

Watch out for Roy character, right dodgy bloke.

Don't get sending him any money for lamps or anything
:lol:

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My understanding of the approach to managing pollution in the Northern Pennines is that research work has identified the sites and they have been ranked by severity of pollution, particularly zinc and cadmium. You can read elsewhere about why zinc is in the water and its effects on life (including us). There is also a related problem about the movement of silt in rivers which MAY have originated from mines and/or mine dumps - if the silt includes minerals.

The Environment Agency is required to take remedial action to reduce this pollution. They have subcontracted some work to the Coal Authority. The CA have in turn contracted specialist firms to design schemes for individual mine sites.

In the North P.s there have been site visits to Sedling, Cammock Eals, Rampgill/Caplecleugh, Nentsberry Haggs, and Barneycraig.

None of the schemes have reached firm proposal stage.

The discussions on site at Barneycraig touched on a proposal to dam the level entrance and pump the water to higher level treatment plant. English Heritage and myself said that this would not be acceptable.

I believe that we have a responsibility as interested parties to represent the archaeology and leisure interests of the Mining History community.

I also believe that if we fail to participate, we will probably lose access to some significant underground areas.

I would welcome any alternative suggestions as to how we can collectively influence this work.

(PS: to avoid confusion I am presenting myself as a mining historian, who is also a representative of NAMHO).

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I remember doing some research into reed beds many years ago and seem to recall that they can be used to precipitate heavy metal and mineral pollutants out of water courses, plenty of info out there, if you've got the time and inclination to search.

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As PeteJ has pointed out the Environment Agency are actively pursuing these issues. For a good background to the subject read:

"Prioritisation of abandoned non-coal mine impacts on the environment. SC030136/R12 Future management of abandoned non-coal mine water discharges."

(There are also separate reports for all the individual river basins listing sites for concern.)

There is a section on stakeholder engagement, which they take seriously. Possibly the original request in this thread is part of that process, though if that's the case, it would be nice if it were explicitly stated.

CMT is actively working with Natural Resources Wales (formally Environment Agency Wales) re the discharge from Cwmystwyth Mines. I expect that this is common knowledge.

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Hi Craig

My interest in the mine is distinctly amateur though I do have a reasonable working knowledge of underground conditions there. If you want any general background, please feel free to send me a pm. Or even continue to ask within the thread where you'll be likely to receive a wider response. But the situation is not far off that described by John Lawson & ChrisJC above.

Rich

Agreed.
Furthermore, I (and I know Rich has done the same) have collated any documentation on the history or current workings of those mines (over and above the three volumes mentioned above). I very much doubt if it is exhaustive, but it would definitely be a good start.

Chris.

OTOH, we need to be very careful not to shoot ourselves in the foot by reporting information which may bring down a ton of official action!

MARK

I would have thought the very mention of doing work for the CA was enough of a warning of Official Action.

Taking a look at the NDAs I've signed for most of my translation clients, particularly car manufacturers, I would have been made destitute, deported, excommunicated, pilloried, hung, drawn, quartered, and almost every other penalty you can think of for as little as even mentioning their names, let alone their latest products 😉

bumped...

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