Well Jagman, if you you can't work out where I stand on damage to mines from my previous posts on this thread, then to be honest, shame on you. I have made clear my opinion. But then again, your previous 'last posting' on this thread is no longer your last posting.
As for your other point, I am unaware of any 'dubious' legal circumstances with anything I have ever done (with the exception of strange colour schemes in my living room).
As I have always said, I stand for moderation and tolerance, what do you stand for?

You know what Mr Moorlandminerals.com? You are right, I fully understand your position. There isn't really an awful lot more to say is there?

Mike

1 Underground Conservation at Nenthead

Following the last two UG events at Nenthead , we advertised events on the NPHT website - mainly at Thompsons Level and cleared the level to the bottom of a probable run-in shaft.

Work at Thompsons is suspended pending receipt of an SMC and we have been digging in Middlecleugh Level. The next event is this coming Sunday. All NPHT members are welcome.

Events are publicised on the NPHT website - contact details are there.

2 Underground Matters

Paul and I were not able to find the time to call a formal meeting to establish a NPHT UG Group. We are now hoping to arrange that event in the next three months and will publicise the event asap.

We will be happy to receive offers of help with the committee work for such a group.

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Mike



The next event is this coming Sunday. All NPHT members are welcome.

Events are publicised on the NPHT website - contact details are there.

Can we have a link for that please, I've had a look and cant find it on the events page or the activities page.

Can't do this W/E but will watch for the next one
Cheers

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http://www.mindat.org/photos/0858051001223936962.jpg 

£1,800.00 !!!

"By far and away, the best specimens on offer at the show were Peter Ward's recent find of Galena and Fluorite from Rampgill Mine, Cumbria, UK"

Shocking 😠

[mod]Link made clickable[/mod]

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Link to NPHT events is here

http://npht.com/wordpress/category/events/ 

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Thanks Pete,
I was looking on the Nenthead mines events page, that one is more relevant -and much easier to read too.

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PeteJ, thanks for that link. I have just written a cheque to join the NPHT, hope to get involved in some events soon 🙂 :thumbup:

I did not want to get involved in this, however:

I was recently in a working mine watching hydraulically operated drilling rigs in action together with an automated conveyor system and underground crushing mill.
I turned to the rest of the party and solemnly announced to all:

“This is a good example of a mine being completely ruined by professional mineral collectors”

Sorry, I cant help it.

Thank Mr MoorlandMinerals AKA Robert Lawson ( and father) for the discovery of the Rampgill horse whim, Mr Skippy AKA Peter Ward for the full days work that he put in Smallcleaugh to prevent the collapse of arching thereby allowing the mine to remain accessible.

The biggest enemies of mineral collectors are others in their own interest group. Whenever I hear of ‘death threats’ I would bet all the money that I have that its something to do with minerals. Why is it that these pretty bits of rock seen to bring out the worst in us. Those who don’t collect may sometimes be critical of those who do, but its never fisticuffs or pistols at dawn.

Finally, I don’t whether it’s true or not, but I was told this by someone who knows what he is talking about this Easter weekend at the Nent.
The drills and holes etc referred to in an early posting have actually been there for years.

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Link to NPHT events is here

http://npht.com/wordpress/category/events/ 

http://npht.com/wordpress/category/events/ 

Cheers Pete - if you want to add these as an event on this website, this can be done via this page http://www.aditnow.co.uk/events/  - click on "Add an Event" at top right.

That will bring it to the attention of a wider audience and if trips are member-only, then that can be stated to encourage people to join up.

If you can't work it out, I'm sure one of the Admins will be pleased to do this for you!

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Well said Roy !

Everyone who has posted on this thread (especially the ones that have been bitchy) should meet up in Nenthead, get to ask one question, and expect to receive a non 'politician' straight up civil answer. I wonder if it would be a case of pigs will fly?

I'm wondering if I should take my self of this thread as its interfering with work 😉

Does anyone have a real job, that they can dedicate so much time to this?

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Bigchris wrote:

Look at the prices: campylite £2000, £4500, £2600 ...

There is a difference between prices asked, and prices got. At those prices I don't think he'll get many takers.

He had some really spectacular galena specimens from Rampgill, ... I went there over Christmas and found the spot (the combination with fluorite is quite distinctive so I could even find the exact vug). Drill holes surrounded it. The specimens had clearly been blasted out.

If they had to be drilled and blasted out then it rather suggests they were in a largely closed vug, or else hammer & chisel would have sufficed. If so then they could never have been properly appreciated by mine-explorers. How can one appreciate minerals sealed behind solid rock so one cannot see them? In those circumstances, people would probably walk right by and not even know they were there. It would take an experienced mineral collector to spot the signs that a cavity might be lurking there, and to do the work necessary to open it up and liberate its treasures from their rocky tomb, bringing them into the light of day so they can then be enjoyed (by someone with £1800!).

Does anyone have a real job, that they can dedicate so much time to this?

I had one, then I started this site :lol: :lol: I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm working through an overal visual and functional revamp at the moment...

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AR wrote:

A disused building will eventually fall down if nothing is done to keep it up – do I then have the right to go in and take anything I please from it because it’s now disused and will collapse at some point in the future?

Yes - if the owner has no objection.

Of the specimens held in museum/institution collections, were the majority of them collected from mines that were in work at the time of collection?

As far as I am aware statistics on this are not kept, but in the case of Victorian specimens the answer may be "yes", but in the case of modern ones, probably "no". According to a paper in English Nature report 505, p. 63-8, Manchester Museum acquired 5200 specimens in the years 1993-2002. More than half were donations. 49 % were from amateurs, 7 % were purchased from dealers (but most of those probably also were collected by amateurs). As there were very few working mineral mines in the UK at the time (and Manchester Museum's focus is on UK minerals) I think one can safely say that most of these acquisitions did not come from working mines, although that does not preclude working quarries, and non-mine localities.

Where a dealer removes a specimen from a disused mine and subsequently sells it on, do they ever pay a proportion of the sale price back to the owner of the mineral rights?

Depends on whether they have struck a deal. Most of the time collectors simply get permission to collect specimens. Once permission is secured the specimens they collect are legally their's to do with as they please. At risk of sounding pedantic, a dealer buys and sells, those who collect to sell are commercial collectors. Most collectors who collect & sell do so only to recoup costs, selling not being the primary objective - ie. they'd still collect even if they were unable to sell.

In the choice between the Robin Reliant and the Porsche, does the question of ownership of the Porsche not come in to it, regardless of whether it’s been left with the keys in the ignition?

See above about taking from a disused building.

Why does mineral collecting never seem to get discussed on ME – is this because Jagman kills and eats any mineral collectors who turn up there?

Perhaps I should join up and find out, although I think he'll find me tough and unpalatable. 😉

Bigchris wrote:

Look at the prices: campylite £2000, £4500, £2600 ...

There is a difference between prices asked, and prices got. At those prices I don't think he'll get many takers.

He had some really spectacular galena specimens from Rampgill, ... I went there over Christmas and found the spot (the combination with fluorite is quite distinctive so I could even find the exact vug). Drill holes surrounded it. The specimens had clearly been blasted out.

If they had to be drilled and blasted out then it rather suggests they were in a largely closed vug, or else hammer & chisel would have sufficed. If so then they could never have been properly appreciated by mine-explorers. How can one appreciate minerals sealed behind solid rock so one cannot see them? In those circumstances, people would probably walk right by and not even know they were there. It would take an experienced mineral collector to spot the signs that a cavity might be lurking there, and to do the work necessary to open it up and liberate its treasures from their rocky tomb, bringing them into the light of day so they can then be enjoyed (by someone with £1800!).

I would imagine that these prices might be tongue in cheek, I was under the impression that Pete was only exhibiting his collection at the show for people to see and that the prices where to stop people asking to buy, I believe it caused an upset with a group of other collectors.

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If the site is a SSSI, National Monument or other that should not be touched – leave it bloody alone.

Actually, as I think Moorlandmineral was trying to say, designation of a site as a SSSI does not necessarily preclude specimen collecting. When a site is given SSSI designation items from a list of "Operations Liable to Damage" are selected. These are things like agricultural practices, dumping, landfilling, forestry, building ... No. 25 is specimen collecting. If the site does not have OLD25 notification then specimen collecting is not prohibited under the SSSI legislation. Interestingly, the SSSI part of the Caldbeck Fells (if permit scheme infamy) does not have OLD25 notification! Perhaps someone from the NPHT can tell what the situation is at Nenthead with respect to OLD25?

Mr Mike wrote:

I would imagine that these prices might be tongue in cheek, I was under the impression that Pete was only exhibiting his collection at the show for people to see and that the prices where to stop people asking to buy, I believe it caused an upset with a group of other collectors.

Stall holders at mineral shows are there to sell, not show off. Besides, had someone pulled out a wad of cash, amounting to £1800, what would Mr Ward have done then? Are the specimens on his website, advertised as "for sale", also there just for show? Also, one of the principal causes of the introduction of restrictions in the Caldbecks was excessive stripping by commercial collectors. By Mr Ward's own admission he took vast quantities from Dry Gill mine. Behaviour like this, and flaunting it on the internet, with extravagant prices, does not cast mineral collecting in a favourable light. 😠

No it does not cast collectors in a good light, but it was all over 30 years ago - not today as some are propagating - attitudes change. Not being as old as some of you, I also can say that 20 years ago I was also collecting or helping collect, and being there just for the fun of it - my views have changed drastically since.

Unless I have been lead up the horse level, I believe that he was purely exhibiting at Bakewell to show his collection, something that was arranged with the organisers - if anyone knows them, ask and share your findings.

Time for a large glass of port me thinks, and to turn of the computer, there is a life outside this thread!

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Mr Mike....

A brief note. I have been to Bakewell show, if he wanted to exhibit his so called 'treasures' then he need only have put them in a case marked 'Exhibition Only'. This is common practice at these type of events, at Haywards Heath they even hold a competition each year based up a mineral theme.I must admit I only bothered to look at these so called 'treasures' once. However, he was obviously proud of his achievements in collecting them, maybe if someone wanted to part with money as fast as that (apart from buying bank shares) then maybe its being harsh to judge him?

in reply to Mr Mike, Bakewell show organisers allow people to purchase a table or two for the duration of the show (two days,or one day if you wish) what they put on their respective tables must be mineral or lapidary orientated, whether they choose to sell or display is their choice.

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have I gone deaf or is this thread quiet....yes the shelling has stopped...time for a game of footi.

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