Looks like you have found the real Skippy

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[mod]References to an out of bounds site where no access agreement is currently in effect have been removed. A little discretion please gentlemen[/mod]

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A few questions….

A disused building will eventually fall down if nothing is done to keep it up – do I then have the right to go in and take anything I please from it because it’s now disused and will collapse at some point in the future?

Of the specimens held in museum/institution collections, were the majority of them collected from mines that were in work at the time of collection?

Where a dealer removes a specimen from a disused mine and subsequently sells it on, do they ever pay a proportion of the sale price back to the owner of the mineral rights?

In the choice between the Robin Reliant and the Porsche, does the question of ownership of the Porsche not come in to it, regardless of whether it’s been left with the keys in the ignition?

Why does mineral collecting never seem to get discussed on ME – is this because Jagman kills and eats any mineral collectors who turn up there?

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Why does mineral collecting never seem to get discussed on ME – is this because Jagman kills and eats any mineral collectors who turn up there?

Err I don't honest.
Probably down to the slightly different nature of the two forums to be honest.
Although many Aditnow and Mine-Explorer users cross between both forums (and indeed go on the same trips with each other) there seems to be a slightly different focus on each forum. There is a lot more historical stuff on AN, there are a few more of the sporty types on ME (not that I could ever be described as sporty!)
Just a slightly different balance of users.

All terribly digressed from the original posting! But in the spirit of 5 pence worth…

My first introduction into mine exploring was by a friend at college. I soon met his father who was a collector and had a business selling minerals. The formative years (mid to late teens) of my interest consisted of much mineral collecting and I thought nothing of it, it is only when I became more interested in the exploration aspect, that I changed my views and behaviour. It is development and education, and to be honest I have no bad feelings for those early days, as it may have not led to where I am now with mine exploring.

If collectors (collectors as in for financial gain / business) carried out their collecting within the law (this is the problem, they all can’t be arsed to) that would be great and should not cause any issues with anyone. However, collectors seem to ignore a few things and it would be great if they didn’t:

If the site is a SSSI, National Monument or other that should not be touched – leave it bloody alone.

If it is an abandoned mine, also leave it alone unless you get the permission of the mineral rights holder to extract. My gut feeling is that no one has ever probably tried to do this (only the Americans at Rogerly), so if mineral collecting is going on without permission, there are no if and buts, it is thieving.

As for the recent mess in Smallcleugh, who was it actually? It has been mentioned that they where well known? Name them!

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AR:- If you save anything of value from a building then you have done each and every man a service. That which goes to destruction unknown by man is a loss to our sum of knowledge. You can always use the old..... Most ends up on Mantle argument, but still, anything brought out into the open and before the human eye stands a chance at least of adding to that sum of knowledge.... An old old argument.
Mr Mike.... You talk about collectors 'staying within the law' Which law??? SSSI's? Mineral Ownership???? If you go to Marble Arch caves, at least one notice refers to the following....' Only buy fossils off Licensed Fossil Dealers!' Really? Ever seen a 'License' for a dealing in Fossils??? Has one ever been issued? Thats always the problem. If you try and insist each & every law be fully adhered to before you do anything, nothing gets done. That includes Mine Exploring incidentally. Oh, Mr Mike, an SSSI does NOT necessarily Mineral Collecting, unless they have a specific OLD schedule on it. You see, HM Government is not so silly as to stop collecting, the ultimate value of the collection and research in the subject is fully recognised....
As for your comments about abandoned mines, please refer to previous posting's on Nent Mines. You are most welcome to have 'gut feelings', but with all due respect your 'gut feelings' do NOT constitute the law of this land.

OOOP's.... Errata... An SSSI does not necessarily preclude collecting!!! You try and type and answer somebody at the same time....

As for your comments about abandoned mines, please refer to previous posting's on Nent Mines.

I have no opinion on the subject as a whole that I care to offer however is there not an NPHT sign at the start of the digs in Rampgill asking kindly that things aren't pinched and removed to Scotland?

Alright Mr Moorlandminerals.com
Why don't you just lay your cards on the table? Your interest in this subject here on this forum is based entirely on your profit making activities is it not?

That webpage seems to have vanished! I am glad to say I found a cached version of it:-


John and Robert Lawson

Specialising in minerals from the North of England, Scotland and Ireland


We offer top quality , self-collected specimens which lately have included:

Hemimorphite from the Leadhill / Wanlockhead mining district
Gold from Lecanvey, County Mayo, Ireland
Gmelinite from the Little Deer Park type locality in County Antrim, Northern Ireland

Honey-brown calcite crystals in a basalt matrix

Collected in 2006 from Craig's Quarry, ballymena, County Antrim,
Northern Ireland To contact us please:

email:
telephone: 01387 248224
visit: Galloway Gemshop
130-132 King St
Castle Douglas
DG7 1LU

Mr Jagman......

I interest in this is based WHOLLY on my own love for and long term interest in Mines....
My father introduced me to mines in the early 1970's, our collective knowledge on the subject is beyond compare. In the near future we intend to start uploading some of the HUGE library that we hold (Plans, Records, Bargain Books, etc etc) on to the site, FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL....
If you feel this is however undesirable, please do let me know tho..... 😉
I represent a balanced, moderate view, collecting and mine exploring working to the benefit of all... Do you disapprove?

Well done JohnnearCfon!!!!
If you care to check with ALL those localities, you will find we have collected from sites with permission of the owners, or from sites with general permission to collect!!!
Thanks for the free advertising tho!!!!
That is unless you guys now disapprove of us collecting with the owners permission, (unlike the Americans at Rogerley who are ok).... :thumbsup:

"our collective knowledge on the subject is beyond compare"

And he's modest too! 😉

Mr Jagman......

I interest in this is based WHOLLY on my own love for and long term interest in Mines....
My father introduced me to mines in the early 1970's, our collective knowledge on the subject is beyond compare. In the near future we intend to start uploading some of the HUGE library that we hold (Plans, Records, Bargain Books, etc etc) on to the site, FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL....
If you feel this is however undesirable, please do let me know tho..... 😉
I represent a balanced, moderate view, collecting and mine exploring working to the benefit of all... Do you disapprove?

Disaprove? I don't know. Do you or do you not condone serious damage to the fabric of dis-used mines in persuit of mineral samples and do you trade in specimens obtained in dubious legal circumstances?
Two simple questions which would pretty much dictate what my answer to your question is.

Well modest if you consider that we collectively have 70 years of Mine Exploration between us........

Well Jagman, if you you can't work out where I stand on damage to mines from my previous posts on this thread, then to be honest, shame on you. I have made clear my opinion. But then again, your previous 'last posting' on this thread is no longer your last posting.
As for your other point, I am unaware of any 'dubious' legal circumstances with anything I have ever done (with the exception of strange colour schemes in my living room).
As I have always said, I stand for moderation and tolerance, what do you stand for?

I do hope that this discussion thread shows the difficulties that NPHT face when trying to conserve the mines at Nenthead.

NPHT have been asking for some time that all people visiting the mines ask our permission and pay a fee. After all, we lease the land, pay the insurance and work on conservation of the site. It would be really welcome to see that all visitors complied with this request.

NPHT reminds visitors that there is no of access for vehicles and that the roads from the Smelt Mill, and Fairhill are private roads.

NPHT employ staff, including Paul at Nent, and we expect our staff to be able to work without receiving offensive comments. Surely normal rules of sensible behaviour apply - even on the intranet?

NPHT would like to see volunteers coming forward who would work to conserve and protect the historic sites underground. We have started with a small group of volunteers. We regularly advertise events - where are you all?

NPHT note that the law about SSSIs and Ancient Monuments may have its grey areas in some people's minds. However, we believe that the basic intention to protect and conserve sites for the future seems to be clear in law and we expect all visitors to behave in ways that respect that basic intention.

Peter Jackson
Director and Trustee
pp North Pennines Heritage Trust

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Sorry to be a bore guys, work calls 😞 This time yesterday, had to go deal with a drunk fell flat on his face, ended up having to find him an ambulance.... Hope that doesn't happen again...

I do hope that this discussion thread shows the difficulties that NPHT face when trying to conserve the mines at Nenthead.

It certainly does. And it shows the difficulties experienced in running a web site as well!

NPHT employ staff, including Paul at Nent, and we expect our staff to be able to work without receiving offensive comments. Surely normal rules of sensible behaviour apply - even on the intranet?

I entirely agree. I have already PM-ed Paul with an apology on behalf of the site and the admins for the comments aimed at him by one member on this thread. These posters' opinions do not in any way reflect the opinion of this site or its admins.

INPHT would like to see volunteers coming forward who would work to conserve and protect the historic sites underground. We have started with a small group of volunteers. We regularly advertise events - where are you all?

Feel free to advertise the events on here using the Events section if you wish: http://www.aditnow.co.uk/events/ 

NPHT note that the law about SSSIs and Ancient Monuments may have its grey areas in some people's minds. However, we believe that the basic intention to protect and conserve sites for the future seems to be clear in law and we expect all visitors to behave in ways that respect that basic intention.

We are currently working on some site policies, they will largely be in line with NAMHO policies (AditNow is a NAMHO affiliate member) and will make it clear what we consider acceptable and what we consider unacceptable. Hopefully this will allow certain posters to decide whether they are on the correct web site or not.

For now this thread will remain locked because I've had enough of a tiny minority of mineral dealers (not collectors, we are not tarring personal collectors with the same brush) popping up with "and another thing" style of argument. It is not what this site is for, it drags us all down to their level, and they are not the people this site is intended to serve.

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NPHT would like to see volunteers coming forward who would work to conserve and protect the historic sites underground. We have started with a small group of volunteers. We regularly advertise events - where are you all?

Sorry Pete, but your post reminds me - I have been waiting for 3 years now for the Underground Exploration Group (part of NPHT) to be formed, as proposed in the underground matters meeting - nothing yet, put my email down along with others, not heard anything ???

I had visions of NPHT doing much more work underground and keeping the mine routes open, which I would gladly be part of!

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