The PDMHS have just finished an archaeological dig/surface consolidation of High Rake Mine near Great/Little Hucklow in the Peak District. The group led by John Barnatt have met every first Saturday of the month for the past 7 or so years to complete the project.

I've put an unofficial aerial photo up here with mine plan overlay for interest.

If you pass the area its worth having a look. There are now well appointed information signs on site. (From whence the plan came :-)) )

There are only surface remains, no access to underground workings.

http://www.kap.toadstone.com/pdmhs/highrake/web/ 

Peter.

Nice site Peter, the kite flying paid off in the end! Do let Niki Adlam-Stiles know the URL so she can add it to the page on the PDMHS website (http://www.pdmhs.com/HighRake.asp )

An update on the old photos which recently got sold on Ebay - unfortuunately, the buyer has not responded to approaches (this person seems to be an obsessive collector or dealer who buys a dozen or more magic lantern slides every day). However, we're now going to see if the seller still has the original digital photos they used to list the slides, and there is always the hope that the original photos may someday come to light..... I've put copies into the archive album for High Rake

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Peter
Excuse me for sounding stupid but is it very difficult to produce excellent overlays like the one you have produced?
Malcolm

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Hi Malcolm - its not stupid and neither is it too difficult. I don't want to sound patronizing but if you have the correct software (know how to use it), an idea of what you want to project and know how to manipulate graphics then it is very easy. I am not a graphics artist and I can't draw to save my life, so I have to work around visual concepts that pop in my head !!

The example I've done has many flaws and I will be re-doing it. I took a couple of photos of the signs with the plans on them. These I put together, the result being a flat plan of the site. I then chose one of the aerial images which showed the site overall.

What you need now is a graphics application that will allow you to manipulate the plan view in perspective and then to capture the resultant image when you have achieved the same perspective as the aerial photo. To do this I use Illustrator (there are other programs). With this program you can also work with layers, a very important feature when manipulating graphics, it also has the 3D effect used on the plan view. The two images are then matched using the layers and transparency features of Illustrator. I then save the output from Illustrator as 2 separate files and convert them to jpgs. On a Mac you can also grab screen images as part of the OS so you could also do it that way to produce the final 2 images.

So I now have the two images you see in the final web page. The task now is to combine them so they appear to react in the browser. There are several ways to do this. I try to avoid using plugins or the likes of Flash wherever possible for simple transitions. As I am totally Mac based now I've gone over to using a program called Freeway to compile web pages. This very reasonably priced program has come on leaps and bounds recently and (like every program) once you've learnt some of the basics and foibles, it can do some otherwise complicated tasks very simply by using javascript. These pieces of javascript code are called actions in Freeway. The one I've used here is the scriptaculous action. This allows me to fade in and out layers in a CSS layered web page. The last layer is the legend at the bottom which is an omni present layer. So it is relatively simple. Go and have a look at Freeways web site to see what can be done.
http://www.softpress.com/products/scriptaculous.php 

I could also use this output in a presentation if needed. Using Freeway actions other effects could have been used either on their own or combined with the effect shown. All done on a Mac but I'm sure the same could be achieved with MS.

Peter.

Hi Peter

Thanks very much for taking the time to supply that very full explanation. I can now go away and think about it. The history group I belong too is thinking along these lines but as yet nobody has the expertise. One problem I envisage is getting the scales exactly right. Anyway, thanks again.

Malcolm

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Malcolm,
If you have the plan view and the image I can have a go at it. The scaling should not be too much of a problem so long as the quality of the subject matter is of high quality.You can scale in Illustrator with no problem.

Peter.

Peter
Haven't got that far with the detail yet but when I do hopefully I can discuss it with you. The original idea by a couple in the group was to produce, say, take an OS map c. 1860 and then with a series of overlays show the changes over time for the small area around the Basset mines. This is not on a PC but hard copy. Frankly I can see many problems with this, not even sure it can be done, but as I'm not directly involved, I've kept it zipped.
This might sound a bit silly but I was thinking more of say taking a high resolution Google image (they are quite good for this area) and doing something along the lines that you have produced if that is possible. One would have to decide what to use as the overlay (map or plan). Does this sound feasable? or am I dreaming a bit. It's slightly different to what you have produced because in a sense your base plate had no remaining features which isn't the case here. Anyhow there's no harm thinking about it and thanks very much for the offer, might take you up on it if and when I have something more concrete.
Regards

Malcolm

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Try this out for a sample.
http://www.kap.toadstone.com/public/basset/bassetmap_1.mov 

I'm sure you know of the OS map site
http://www.old-maps.co.uk 

I've done it as a .mov in Quicktime so you can download it.

Peter.

That's very good and very much along the lines I'm thinking. I have to double click the Google image to get the overlay when I assume it should change itself. I think this may be because i need Quicktime 7.0 pro because when I go to download I get a panel which states that the Feature Requires the above. Thanks again for all this effort it's much appreciated and at least I'm on another learning curve.

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I've done a simple page to replace the other one I did.
http://www.kap.toadstone.com/public/basset/ 

Just click on the image to play it again.

Edited: Perhaps that should be double click ::)

That's fine Peter. Sorry I've been a little slow replying but Tiscali went into meltdown yesterday. There is only one word to describe their tech. help in India. Nightmare.
I assume similar results could be achieved if one had the individual mine plans? Anyway many thanks again for your help.

malcolm

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A final take on it as I don't want to bore you or others.

If whoever own the plans copyright or if they are OS, permission is sought. Then you do the same for the photo image, then it is possible, I can't see a problem. If it is for a static public display or book then you will need to seek the necessary permission as I'm sure you are aware.

This is not always so onerous as is made out, so long as it is made clear what is intended. Old maps are without doubt a fantastic source of information. If used with current low altitude photographic data, you can very often re-discover or find lost features. As you can see by the simple exercise I've carried out possible lost features can be drilled down to reasonable sized search areas. Professionals and academics have always had access to such information but as you can see that is now well and truly in the public domain.

The subject has always interested me and that's why when I discovered Kite Aerial Photography, it put a very powerful research tool in my hands. The problem is of course conditions have to be right in order to carry it out. The technique is not new considering the first aerial photograph was taken very soon after the photographic invention itself. Needless to say the military were the first to use it as a very effective tool and the rest is history.

With the number of mines there are down in your neck of the woods it would pay somebody to get kitted out and start a program of recording. Being environmentally friendly these days is PC whether or not it is effective in the long run remains to be seen, so it is a viable alternative to thunderously flying through the air at great expense in a helicopter, disturbing everything in its wake.

To give you another take on it. There is a guy in the States who leaves his kite up for very long periods, taking time lapse and stills all in one go. No idea why he does it but he does. Anyone contemplating trying this out must understand that it does require patience and a certain level of being able to understand the basic elements that make up taking an aerial photo, in itself not difficult.

Peter.

A final take on it as I don't want to bore you or others.

To give you another take on it. There is a guy in the States who leaves his kite up for very long periods, taking time lapse and stills all in one go. No idea why he does it but he does. Anyone contemplating trying this out must understand that it does require patience and a certain level of being able to understand the basic elements that make up taking an aerial photo, in itself not difficult.

Peter.

I agree although you aren't boring me.

You could presumably do it equally as well with helium filled balloons.

Malcolm

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You could presumably do it equally as well with helium filled balloons.

Now that is something I could help with 🙂

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Helium + Balloons. You most certainly can. In fact there are mini blimp manufacturers along with all the gear to take such imagery. One manufacturer in the New Forest area has developed a hybrid helium filled balloon/kite. An item which has been used by the army for observation duties (big ones) and farmers for scaring birds (little ones). Allsop Helikites. The problem is to be efficient in helium use, you really need to keep them semi or fully inflated. I even did an exercise to cost buying one of these sonde jobs you can buy off e-bay but Helium ain't cheap and environmentally is is worth remembering that the gas is a FINITE resource. Man has not made helium yet so once its gone its gone and where it goes is up. Helium sadly, gradually leaks from what ever envelope its contained in as far as I know. However on a scale of environmental impact it is one of the better methods.

BTW I'm not an eco-warrior, I'll be sprouting daisies long before the apparent hole in the ozone layer spells Armageddon for us all. That said if we were all to be conservative in our approach to such issues I believe it will give more than enough time to sort things out. :offtopic:

If you have access to the finances to make moves in that direction then I would recommend the Helikite. The larger ones will lift basic RC camera gear and fly well in no wind up to 30 mph, which if you are hand holding will give you a bit of an adrenalin rush I can tell you.

I'm looking to get across to Cwmorthin to get some aerials there. It'll be third time lucky. Depending on work I might look at coming down to Cornwall too sooner rather than later this year.

Peter.

What sort of balloons do you have Simon?? You're not in to met are you 🙂

What sort of balloons do you have Simon?? You're not in to met are you 🙂

No 🙂 Standard advertising balloons http://www.adabout.com/ 

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I even did an exercise to cost buying one of these sonde jobs you can buy off e-bay but Helium ain't cheap and environmentally is is worth remembering that the gas is a FINITE resource.

I wish I had a pound for everyone of those sonde jobs I've filled over the years. The bigger ones would get to about 120,000ft, perhaps not necessary for this exercise 😉

You could aways use hydrogen :flowers: -Might be needed.

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Well between you Malcolm and Simon it begs the question why hasn't something been done before now!!!! AditNow Aerial survey/film service. Those blimps look as though they'll lift a few pounds. Equip it with a gyro and you'd be well away.

Well between you Malcolm and Simon it begs the question why hasn't something been done before now!!!! AditNow Aerial survey/film service. Those blimps look as though they'll lift a few pounds. Equip it with a gyro and you'd be well away.

Good idea. Mining a speciality. Just to add I've managed to download the Basset/Carnkie example you produced. Got the pro add on. Haven't worked out yet how to stop it at any particular point.

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