Cuban Bloodhound and I managed to find one of the adits to the Blairlogie copper mine on Saturday, there are now some pictures from both of us in the mine's album.

It was a nice little place to look at, progress stopped fairly quickly however as we came to a winze that we didn't want to go down owing to a lack of places to fix anything to. There were two old iron spikes in the floor but I certainly wasn't for trusting them...

We are going to look for the other adit to the East in a few weeks time.

Nice to see that not much has changed since 1967. But it must have been raining a lot, because I have been in there a number of times and never seen a pool of water before. The end of the fork was always muddy.

I don't remember any iron spikes in the floor, maybe they are relatively recent? In 40 years quite a lot of rusting can occur in a damp environment.

In comparison, the adit to the east is quite boring, hardly worth the climb. You will not need climbing equipment, nor boiler suits, only a hard hat and camera. I didn't even bother with the hard hat. No crawling at all.

Alan

Is there much to see if you go down the winze Alan? I don't have the SRT kit or experience to tackle it at the moment, but it would be good to know if there's a good amount down there to see.

I want to learn SRT but it's just finding someone to teach me and some time to learn in. At least living in a four storey tenement has some advantages, I could practice SRT in the huge stairwell to my hearts content once I'm ready for it 😉

Another winze.....

Eventually, water. Tales, possibly not reliable, from people who explored it in the early 20th century suggested that there would be 4 or 5 more winzes, maybe more, but I think the water level has been creeping up slowly, so they are probably now inaccessible.

It is much the same as what you have already seen. No spectacular chambers, or minerals.

I wonder how much money they lost on all that work for a negligible amount of copper?

Alan

Nice pics gents: here's a couple of samples -

🔗Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-003[linkphoto]Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-003[/linkphoto][/link]
🔗Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-016[linkphoto]Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-016[/linkphoto][/link]
🔗Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-008[linkphoto]Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-008[/linkphoto][/link]
🔗Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-004[linkphoto]Blairlogie-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-004[/linkphoto][/link]

SRT would seem to be the answer to dropping deeper - apart from needing the skills to actually go up and down a rope, you also need to be able to secure the rope, which is often a bit tricky. Good luck!

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Possibly worth spending the time on working out how rig a ladder safely to get into the Alva silver mine instead then?

Now do you mean the Silver Glen, or Carnaughton Glen (both Alva)?

If I remember correctly, the alleged winze in Carnaughton Glen was filled, if indeed it was ever there. (But be careful anyway!)

The only non water-filled Silver Glen winze is inaccessible, unless you get the permission of the landowner (was the Woodland Trust, but I think they may be called something else now), and get the key. They concreted a lockable steel grille door into the entrance many years ago. (Good thing too, in 1966 I only just managed to grab someone who started to step into the winze, thinking it was only a shadow!) Same for the one not far upstream, below the waterfall, which has a flooded winze.

The other Silver Glen mines are merely surrounded by barbed wire, and in one case, a pile of earth. The oldest, where the silver was actually found, as is now known, contains a pool of fairly vile water, possibly a winze, and beyond are several levels leading off in various directions. For that, I would recommend some kind of bridge (long plank?), but not having a suitable portable bridge, I have never seen what is in the levels.

Alan

That confirms that the water level in Blairlogie is creeping upwards, because it was not at the second shaft 40 years ago. I was not around then, but was told a long time ago that there were two more shafts accessible, some time before 1950. So I guess the shaft we all know will be filling eventually.

Now the geology book which I can't find right now claimed that there were several collapsed adits (which I could not see) around and below the waterfall. Thinking about the relative levels, one of these may have been for drainage, but it would have to be a really solid blockage to contain the minor amount of water that percolates in.

As for the Silver Glen, there have been many rumours of a deep adit, but I am far from convinced. It certainly can not link the two main workings on the east of the burn, because the higher one has a flooded winze, and the lower one is almost dry.

In 1966, and contrary to most published material since, it seemed obvious that the lowest adit, running north, and shaft on the west bank (not the one in the bank, which aims west towards the shaft but never got there) had been connected to what I believed to be the silver mine, but had collapsed near the silver mine end, hence the deep pool of water.

If there is a deep adit, connected to the waterlogged workings, there should be at least a wet patch somewhere, but I have never seen any such indication.

But it would be nice to be proved wrong. I wonder if the landowner would give permission for some properly organised digging? My present state of fitness precludes being able to do much digging, but if it ever happens, I would like to be there, with camera, to see what I missed 40 odd years ago.

I have not been to the Silver Glen for some time. Last visit was quite depressing, with the gated adits. I guess that vegetation is encroaching. I could not even find the top entry (I will not dignify it by calling it a shaft) to what I thought was the cobalt mine. As that was only covered by some very rusty rails, embedded in concrete, it presents a safety hazard if it does become overgrown, and the rails rust through.

I might have a quick look in late May, but I will only be in the area a few days, and have other things to do, including confirming the state of the Cambusbarron adit, which is thought to have disappeared in the last 10 years or so.

As for Airthrey Hill, never been in there. It would be possible, with a bit of vandalism, to get in via the upper entrance, but in the middle lies a hotel, and spa, whose management are not at all friendly. Or has that changed in some way?

Alan

Stephen,

Thanks for that extra information. I will try to have a look at the Silver Glen again. The adit would at least double the volume of the known workings, I think.

But I am not so sure about the cobalt mine. I can vaguely remember the possible adit you describe, but I dismissed it as a bit of open-cast working, or some slight digging to try to find the main vein. As you say, it really ought to be dug out.

I am wondering about the dry lower-level workings on the east. It has always been assumed, as far as I recall, that there would be an adit, much lower down than the remainder of the workings. I recall that an attempt was made, maybe around 1970, to clear some debris from the lower workings. Continuing that all the way to the surface would clarify the matter. But it is just possible that there is sufficient natural drainage via cracks and fissures to deal with the minor amount of water that enters, although I am thinking that the adit does seem more plausible now, especially as you have a plan.

I do have an old map, 6 inch scale, but have just ordered one in a larger scale (1:2500, 1865) from old-maps.co.uk, so that may be revealing.

As for Blairlogie, I suspect from what you say that the water supply was improved in the 1930s. I will ask my mother, who was born in Blairlogie, and lived there until about 1939. I think she said something about that once, and she knows someone who has a photographic memory for things like that. Blairlogie water was always supposed to be very nice, it had a certain taste, which would be copper and other minerals.

It seems to me that the Airthrey Hill mine ought to be opened to the public as a tourist attraction. I don't think it would be horrifically expensive to put in stairs and lighting, to enable at least part of the workings to be accessed. People would be interested in seeing where the spa water came from, I think. But I will give the breaking and entering a miss, I don't have SRT gear (my generation preferred wire ladders), and although the entrance is in the woods, it is not very far into the woods. Carrying the equipment to shift the timbers (crowbar etc) would be rather too obvious.

Alan

Just for info Airthrey Hill mine now has a steel grid fastened across the entrance. But, it has an access door held in place by two nuts/bolts (look like 10mm) so all thats needed to get in is a couple of spanners and about 5minutes.

Re; Blairlogie adits, I was always under the impression these were trials and never went into production. Forget where I read this, still it does seem like a lot of effort for trial works.

wharryburn,

Mines and Minerals of the Ochils, as far as I recall, describes them as trials. So I think do all of the more official publications. (Don't have them to hand right now to check.)

We have seen errors perpetrated before, when everyone quotes the first supposedly authoritative source. I was never happy with the description "trials". You don't hack deep into hard volcanic rock, probably with hammer and chisel, just for fun. I don't see how anyone would fund a trial involving several winzes in the prevailing geology. Just too expensive.

So I have always believed that they did in fact find produce copper, and were always within sight of breaking even, until the ore ran out. Possibly as much as a few tonnes, in view of the volume of the workings.

There are some trial levels in the Ochils, which probably produced no workable ore at all. They are minor affairs compared to Blairlogie.

But then I wonder why Carnaughton Glen was excavated as far as it was, as it is doubtful if there ever was any meaningful amount of silver.

Maybe some better historical records will turn up, otherwise we will never know.

Alan

Found some info. British Regional Geology, The Midland Valley of Scotland 1948 says:

Mineral Veins. In the Midland Valley of Scotland mineral veins have in the past proved of economic importance in a few instances, but of late years the only ones that have been worked are barytes veins at the Gass Water Mines in Ayrshire and at Muirshiels Mine in Renfrewshire. Hematite (Auchinlongford and Garleton), barytes (Aberfoyle), galena, copper ores (Airthrey and Blairlogie) and native silver (Hilderstone and Alva) have all been worked locally in the past. The veins are usually found along faults or lines of crush; their age is probably Permian or/and tertiary (MacGregor,1844).

The infamous "Mines and Minerals of the Ochils" says, after describing the mines:

Despite a high degree of mineralisation and the existence of seven adit workings there are no written records of any mining activity here. This suggests that the workings represent extensive trials and that the ores were not considered rich enough to justify the development of full scale mining.

"Geology of the Stirling District" has a lot more to say:

Mining. Silver was mined at Airthrey, Alva, Tillicoultry and Carnaughton Glen during the 18th century. The lode found at Alva (p.297) was particularly profitable, and even when the silver became exhausted the mine gained a further lease of life from the discovery of cobalt ore.

Copper and iron ores with subordinate amounts of lead ores were raised in the Ochil Hills from a small number of mines which were worked intermittently from the 17th to the 19th century.

Numerous shallow excavations into barytes veins in the Ochil Hills represent, in the majority of cases, trials for copper, which, at the time they were driven, yielded values too low for profitable extraction. On the other hand, for present-day requirements, the associated impurities are rather high to encourage dxploitation of these veins for barytes.

......................


Blairlogie Trials......

There follows a description of the same 7 adits as Mines and Minerals of the Ochils.

I think there is some more documentation, at least an article in Forth Naturalist and Historian, which I may be able to find. But putting together what we have so far, I am guessing that a useful amount of copper was actually extracted from the main adit at Blairlogie, and all the others were probably useless. Adit B in Mines and Minerals of the Ochils was no longer than 5 feet (I crawled in there once in 1967, what a waste of time, could not even get my feet in!), before it collapsed, so I doubt that it produced anything at all, and most of the others are probably similar.

Alan