Just wanted to post a notification of some changes to Cwmorthin access in an effort to curb the relentless break-ins that we've had this year.

Fear not, it remains open to all free of charge etc, but will involve borrowing a key from the Go Below office or the lakeside café (I've not asked them yet but I'm sure they won't mind) as you pass. Both are open 7 days a week.

Collecting a key will be barely any more hassle than phoning for the code but I think it'll make a world of difference.

Have a read on www.cwmorthin.org for more information, especially the forum section.

Thank you all.

Miles

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Information on FOC site looks eminently sensible.

Why not just use the derbyshire key method? :confused:

Is this a properly installed lock that cant be cut now? Or are you still using the chain?

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No problems with this. Hopefully stop the idiots who could easily cause the mine to be lost for us genuine explorers / ind. archeological types.

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The problem is that some people would rather break the lock or gate than get the combination.
This was happening well before Miles became the owner.
In the old days the combination was not changed and was avaliable all over the place, yet the gate still got damaged.

It may be that some local politics / fued is behind some of this.
Somebody smiled at someone elses sheep!:surrender:

good idea how many keys are you having cut?
will you be required to leave a deposit?just an idea

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Why not just use the derbyshire key method? :confused:

Is this a properly installed lock that cant be cut now? Or are you still using the chain?

Could have something to do with conditions imposed by the landowner?

Why not just use the derbyshire key method? :confused:

Is this a properly installed lock that cant be cut now? Or are you still using the chain?

I don't fancy a trip to Derbyshire everytime I want to go to Cwmorthin 8-)

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A few questions on this:
Are you planning on leaving a key inside in case anyone needs to come out separately to a group/looses the key underground? clearly there's the potential for people to get locked in!

Can you operate a system such as Rhyd Alyn where people who know the mine can become key holders- as clearly we don't want to be restricted to 'opening hours' for trips.

I don't see how a key padlock is going to be less susceptible to damage than a code? There'll be plenty of scope for keys getting lost, which unless you're planning on having a continuous supply of keys available, will result in restricted access which a code does not.

Not trying to sound unhelpful, but I don't think a key will solve the problem, and may make it worse.

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A few questions on this:
Are you planning on leaving a key inside in case anyone needs to come out separately to a group/looses the key underground? clearly there's the potential for people to get locked in!

Can you operate a system such as Rhyd Alyn where people who know the mine can become key holders- as clearly we don't want to be restricted to 'opening hours' for trips.

I don't see how a key padlock is going to be less susceptible to damage than a code? There'll be plenty of scope for keys getting lost, which unless you're planning on having a continuous supply of keys available, will result in restricted access which a code does not.

Not trying to sound unhelpful, but I don't think a key will solve the problem, and may make it worse.

I didn't want to be a Jeremiah but have to echo all that's said above.
I don't think that it will achieve anything positive but just serve to exacerbate the current issues.

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I've obviously given all that a lot of thought, fear not.

Everybody but one who's broken in recently has used small cheap cordless angle grinders and/or bolt croppers to cut the chain and/or padlock.

You can't do that any more. When you see it you'll agree. The cellular-linked 24 hour PIR CCTV system going on it shortly won't buy anyone anywhere near enough time to get through that much steel before the cops rock up.

Yes people could loose the key in there, that would be rather stupid but it could happen. Many mines use a key to get in and out though, that's life. Don't' loose the key and make sure people know where you are.

However, to mitigate that risk the new door going on the smoke flue shortly allows exit without a key (like a night-latch).

Yes I'm intending on supplying a key to the frequent visiting groups (Thursday nighters, ucet'ers etc). I'm not quite ready yet but yes that's the plan.

No a Derbyshire key system isn't suitable in this case. It was suggested to the land owner some years ago and he wasn't satisfied.

Besides, I intend to make it easier, quicker and cheaper to borrow a key than it is to buy a 16mm hex off eBay.

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Looks as though you have thought it all through Mate, good luck with it all.
:thumbsup:

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Good stuff, only been in Cwmorthin a couple of times but looking forward to visiting again :thumbsup:

Presumably there is a plan to circulate this information around other websites. (even the cavers!) :angel:
Otherwise it could cause some difficulties for those who have not seen it.

I must admit that I did not realise that the "Friends of Cwmorthin" site was still active until seeing Miles first post.:-[

Just a passing thought:

Down here in Mendipshire, the BEC keys are all on a large tag, made of steel about 18 inches long and 2 inches wide (aprox) each has the name of the cave and BEC "embossed " in weld, a length of chain welded to the "Fob" and the key attached to the chain.

Yes it is BIG and BULKY, making them hard to loose. AFAIK we've only lost one in years. In GB cave there is a length of terracotta drain pipe just inside the blockhouse that is perfect for stashing the key.

I can see a system similar to this working in Cwm, having collected your key, open the gate, drop key off after passing through the addit, have fun, collect key on exit and return it to its home.

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The only thing wrong with this is from Shrewsbury A5 people would travel via Bala and not Betwys. This is asking people to travel out of their way to get and then return keys. You will need a large deposit to ensure returns

Mike

Mike

Re-read what Miles has put up - the Lakeside Cafe will also be keyholders :thumbsup: (So no problem...)

You got any of the Copper Mines of Snowdonia left - I PM'd you when you first mentioned them?

Clive

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Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated.

I know it's change, and people don't like change, but something had to be done as with combi-padlocks and chains, we were loosing them faster than I could buy them. It was ok for years, but recently it's shot up, maybe some dodgy websites have gotten wind of the place. Who knows.

I've not asked the lady at Lakeside yet but I'm pretty sure she'll be happy to have a load of keys. You drive right past to get to the mine anyway and it only takes a second to jump out and pick one up (about the same time as a phone call to ask for the code really). Many people meet there anyway and have a cooked breakfast before heading up for the days adventure.

In removing the anonymity of visitors, those few who wish to cause trouble will be less inclined to do so because they've had a face-to-face contact to ask for the key, and that makes a big difference. If you find the code written down at the back of some locked-away forum area, you're far more likely to mess about (if you're that way inclined) because the feeling of nobody knowing you're in there gives that sense of confidence.

If it doesn't work we'll try something else, and we'll keep trying until it's right, regardless of what it takes.

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The only thing wrong with this is from Shrewsbury A5 people would travel via Bala and not Betwys. This is asking people to travel out of their way to get and then return keys. You will need a large deposit to ensure returns

Mike

Unless you come via Knockin and the Tanat Valley, going via Betws, Ysbytty Ifan, Cwm Penmachno or Bala makes about 1 mile difference.

Good luck Miles.

Chris.

Very best of luck, Miles, with this new system 🙂

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