Dolcoathguy
15 years ago
http://db.cornwall.gov.uk/fbnews/info/details.asp?ID=12612 

Not sure which side of the main road this is, as most shafts to south are capped (non cage) and most have a collar wall.

With this and other incidents in the recent past highlights the need for safer caps ( non open cage type).

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
Tezarchaeon
15 years ago
As nasty as it may sound I really don't see why dogs falling down shafts should be a reason for sealing them off for good. If the owner is stupid enough to let their dog wander around a former mining site without being kept on a lead then it is the owner's fault for being careless, not the shaft's fault for being an open cage type cap.

If it was a child or an infant that fell down it then fair enough, change the capping method or make the bars closer together, but a dog left to wander around off it's lead on a former mining site by a careless owner is no reason to seal off our historic mine workings.
Ty Gwyn
15 years ago
Is`nt it a bit late after a child falls down one of these shafts?
Tezarchaeon
15 years ago
The chances of that happening are low though, as people actually take the precaution to not let their young child wander around old mines so much. Even so parents should still be extra cautious not to let them wander around without an adult, we all know how tempting it is as a child to go where you shouldn't.

I just don't agree that mines should be sealed off, a cage is fine in most instances. Usually most shaft related incidents are due to people being careless around a potentially dangerous site. All these pretty paths and picnic tables on mine sites these days are quite misleading and put people into a false sense of comfort and saftey. Just because it has been done up to look nice for tourists it doesn't mean it's any safer than it was when it was derelict and the shafts were open wide. People should still take precautions and keep their children/dogs close by and never let them wander off.

People like us who post on this site know the risks involved and also know what not to do. The general public however don't tend to think out of the box and actually keep their pets and children under proper supervision around mining sites.

Don't blame the mine shaft, the same could be said for not fencing off cliff edges but as we know, parents wouldn't dare let their kids and pets wander around a cliff edge unsupervised... why? Because they all know the danger involved and they take the nessecary precautions. They wouldn't fence off the whole of a cliff is if someone was stupid enough to let their kid/dog fall down it. The same precautions need to be taken around mines and people need to stop playing the blame game.
Dolcoathguy
15 years ago
General public are probably not aware that the type of cap varies and some are still open. Some collar walls just surround a concrete bat pillar.
Some open shafts (cage type) have a wire fence around them with warning signs, yet others in the same area do not. Obviously depends when capping was done and by whom.

Problem is that Tuckingmill is being promoted as a regenerated area for people to walk around and enjoy and there are few (if any) warnings of these hazards. Perhaps it was overlooked by some of the various consultation meetings that occurred as part of the CPR plan.
Anyway sure it is highlighted now.
Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
ICLOK
  • ICLOK
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
15 years ago
"Tezarchaeon" wrote:


People like us who post on this site know the risks involved and also know what not to do. The general public however don't tend to think out of the box and actually keep their pets and children under proper supervision around mining sites.

Don't blame the mine shaft, the same could be said for not fencing off cliff edges but as we know, parents wouldn't dare let their kids and pets wander around a cliff edge unsupervised... why? Because they all know the danger involved and they take the nessecary precautions. They wouldn't fence off the whole of a cliff is if someone was stupid enough to let their kid/dog fall down it. The same precautions need to be taken around mines and people need to stop playing the blame game.



Well said that man... we have had this debate again and again. Mine sites are dangerous places capped or otherwise. Even if covered in picnic tables etc there are always going to be trip hazards, slippery bits, projecting bolts etc. If a site is untreated, ok lets get the fences up, get the signs up and make it safe by whatever method is deemed ok but I simply don't understand why people can't take responsibility for themselves and their kids and pets in an area of known mine workings especially where capped, its common sense.... and I know there are warning signs in the treated areas.
Do we have fences on railway platforms?.. No ... Why cos we know from the signs and experience if you fall on the tracks you will break something, or get squashed or both, hence we dont let our kids and pets run about on stations without being warned/restrained in the case of a kid or on a lead in the case of a pet....
Where a mine has not been treated and is on a moor full of gaping abysses, quarries etc the typical family of Mum Dad and kids doesnt tend to be up there, its usually the more experienced who know what they are doing.
We cant negate every risk for every living thing... people especially have to take some responsibility for themselves and theirs.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
stuey
  • stuey
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
15 years ago
Just to pull you up on "bat plugs". Those "holes" in the markers are actually for whacking a bar though and lifting the marker in place with a JCB/Forks. There can be meters of backfill and somewhere below will be a 3m thick concrete plug.

Knowing the Cherry Garden/Trevenson Engine area has been plugged and marked, I'm wondering where the hell they are on about. I think there are no shafts which are open to anything significant without big walls and big locked doors. There is only one shaft I know in the area which is open to a depth and that is fenced/walled......and it's nowhere near a public right of way.

I don't think there is another capping programme looming. We shall see though. A good grille would do the job, like the St Just jobbies.
Dolcoathguy
15 years ago
stuey
Will look at "bat" pillars, should I find any that have no parallel holes, will take a photo but sounds like you were involved directly with this type of capping so you would know for sure.
Yes, I was wondering where this shaft could be...could it be around the Gas lane area or even on South Crofty land?
Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
Knocker
15 years ago
I can't figure out where this could be. Regarding the holes, I believe these serve a dual purpose: -

1. As Stuey says to lift them into position.
2. I believe you will find the marker sits on a pipe, which is there to vent any gas build ups, which vents through the holes.
stuey
  • stuey
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
15 years ago
I thought that they were vent holes but after pushing stones down a few holes and hearing nothing, I assume they don't go. The design specs show vent tubes, but a fair few photos of work in progress don't. There are 2 sorts of marker put in during that period, the "bollards" and the "stonework" ones. The stonework ones (like some fitted at Tresavean/St Day) have vent pipes.

I've spoken to a couple of blokes who were involved in the capping programme as well as looking though Cornwall Studies Library.

Back on topic, the shaft I'm thinking about is on top of the bank behind Maynes Row (but has a load of harris fence around it). I think it might be RDA land.........
mikebee62
15 years ago
A bit off topic , I found a bloke down a shaft at Rosewall Hill mine St Ives in 1983!!, A bit of a shock when you see some odd looking bones under a pile of rocks , move a rock and theres a training shoe on the end!!, that caused a big fuss and a trip to St Ives Police station!!
'Of cause its safe, just dont touch anything !!'
Graigfawr
15 years ago
What was the story behind the body?
mikebee62
15 years ago
Thats a disgrace!! what else can you say!! :curse:
'Of cause its safe, just dont touch anything !!'
mikebee62
15 years ago
I was involved many years ago with the West Cornwall Mine Rescue Group along with Roy Morton and others because this sort of PC crap was happening then!!! 20 odd years ago!! looks like its got a lot worse!! :curse:
'Of cause its safe, just dont touch anything !!'
Brakeman
15 years ago
What a load of bollocks!! it makes your blood boil :curse:

So what would these useless buggers do if was one of their family, leave them to die?? I doubt it!

I've never heard anything so bloody stupid, why do these people not just use a little bit of common sense, it seems pretty obvious that someone whos fallen over 60' down a large hole is likely to be badly injured and needs to be retrieved as soon as is humanly possible.

Health and safety, not very healthy for that poor woman, god it would have been better to tie a rope around her and pull her out.



The management thanks you for your co operation.
mikebee62
15 years ago
Hi Morlock, Perhaps you could post this link onto the main forum I expect a lot of people may have missed it. It deserves everyones opinion on this one i think, maybe someone on here might have some influence somewhere!!!
'Of cause its safe, just dont touch anything !!'
Morlock
15 years ago
mikebee62
15 years ago
Well done for spotting it in the first place!!, should be an interesting post!!,
regards,
Mike
'Of cause its safe, just dont touch anything !!'
Roy Morton
15 years ago
Looks like the fire brigade are going against their own remit here. Not so long ago, a senior fireman told me that there was no official commitment for staff to recover dead animals from shafts. H&S again. Far too dangerous and a strain on equipment and resources. The times CMRO have been called out to shouts that the Fire Brigade have abandoned, citing to the owner, "your dogs dead" or "the shaft's too deep" or even "there's no dog down there" are countless. Every time we retrieved a live dog.
The Strathclyde report is a travesty. Six hours in the bottom af a shaft! what the hell were they doing in that time? looking at their watches and waiting for the moaning to stop? It just makes you sick.
Good samaritan? I wonder what St Paul would have to say on that one?
As for the inquest result......Death by Bureaucracy?
:curse: :curse: :curse:


"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"
justin
  • justin
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
15 years ago
This whole situation is beyond belief..........

After all we're not talking about a deep shaft....

I'm sure they would have illuminated the shaft and the
lady would have felt rescue would follow shortly .....

what a real pigs ear ............







😠

Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2023 AditNow.co.uk

Dedicated to the memory of Freda Lowe, who believed this was worth saving...