Whilst not strictly mining, to me its an integral part of mining. Attached is an overlay of the Horse drawn Gangroads (serving coal, ironstone and clay mines) around Ripley, Alfreton, Heanor, Selston and Langley Mill on the 1870's os to give a comparison. This is all pre Railways as we know them now and indicative of how far plateways had advanced and grown prior to the arrival of edge rails and locomotives. There is an obvious correlation with the canals. Rails would have been flanged L section Outram type plates in the main 3ft long pegged/spiked into stone blocks. The vast majority of lines shown had gone or were converted to proper railways by the 1830/40's.

[img]http://www.aditnow.co.uk/showimage?f=/community/Personal-Album-856-Image-019/[/img]

Hope this is useful as it covers some very interesting areas such as Butterley Iron works in Ripley and also the Little Eaton and Denby Gangroad. PM me for a high res copy.

I also have have scale maps of all the railways around Ripley inc industrial drawn by myself. PM me if interested.

See Ya :thumbsup:

---

Agreed, it's defninately part of mining - what would of been the point of extracting minerals if they could be taken from source to market?

Could you explain Outram Type plates? - I'm curious because it's the name of one of the streets where I live and it's always had a strange name to me

---

Outram was one of the founders of the Butterley Iron works and there is a myth that the word tram came out of Outram's name but this isn't true its much older in origin. He was a great industrialist and very important for his part in the set up of Butterley Co Ironworks and local industry. He was a great man and well respected for his Tramways and Canals nationally.

The typical tramway plates produced by Outram at Butterley were cast L section plates 3 feet long, 4" wide and with a 4" high flange tapering to 2" at the ends, however many other manufacturers produced these plates so there are several types but all are along the same config. The wheels on the wagon were flangeless and the L section of the plates guided the wheels. On the end of plates was a tapered half circular (or square) cut out whch meant that when two plates were laid next to each other it formed a countersunk circular or square hole through which the spike could be driven into the wood filled hole in the sleeper block below. Being cast iron the plates were prone to break and to wear around the mounting holes so plates became lose. Many variants of holes and mountings were developed to reduce these issues, we can see this well at Buxworth Basin near Buxton which has 1 and 2 hole blocks. Typical gauges were 3.5" to 4.5+ Ft. The last commercial operating plateway/gangroad was the Little Eaton and Denby Gangroad (4'6" gauge). The sleeper blocks were about 1'6" sqare by a foot deep. Wikipedia has some great overall Gen on these lines in the Uk but the best reference book is "Stone Blocks and Iron Rails" by Bertrum Baxter (Rare book believe me), The oakwood book on the LE & D Gangroad is an excellent ref.... I just built a model of a wagon in 8mm scale.

I must add that not all types of early tramway were plateways, some had edge rails onto chairs spiked into blocks so the variants nationally are many. But around here it was mainly the Outram type plates.

A most fantastic tramway was made on Dartmoor using carved Granite blocks as rails and because there was no residual value to these stone rails they are still in situ and can be followed as part of the Templer way from the Haytor Quarries (on this site) down to Bovey and Ventiford to meet the Stover canal. This probably gives us the greatest insite into how these early railways really did look.

Early tramways are a whole area of study in its own right as these are the link between mining/quarrying and railways in their truest form but often forgotten as they were eclipsed by the railway mania of the 1820's onwards. Some of these old routes survived well into the modern railway age, its just a shame non survived in any real size. :thumbsup:

Hope this has helped. :thumbup:

---

Thanks for info.
I assume then that Outram Street in Sutton is named after him. :thumbsup:

---

yes.... he was a very well known man.... Lots of Outram Streets around here! :thumbsup:

Hope that was useful, if you want the map in large scale, PM me your email.

Regs ICLOK

---

:offtopic: Just for you ICLOK 😉

http://www.middletonpress.co.uk/details.php?bdetails=978%201%20906008%2023%209 

---

Agreed, it's defninately part of mining - what would of been the point of extracting minerals if they could be taken from source to market?

And an important part. Before the Portreath Tramway it took something like 1000 mules a day to carry ore into Portreath, each animal carrying brtween two and three hundredweight.

---

thanks for the link.... hadn't seen it. Ta Much. :thumbup:

Just walked a local horse gangroad, found a nice embankment... hand built.
:thumbsup:

---

Hi there,

Have you traced any waggonways and plateways in the Wollaton & west Nottingham area ?

Keith.

Not really, not a lot on the Wollaton waggonway exists sadly. i've limited my research to Langley Mill as my furthest southern, but I will get out the maps and gazeteer and see what I find, there are some certainly around cinderhill and at watnall I think.... will have a look.

Regs ICLOK

---

Agreed, it's defninately part of mining - what would of been the point of extracting minerals if they could be taken from source to market?

Could you explain Outram Type plates? - I'm curious because it's the name of one of the streets where I live and it's always had a strange name to me

You might like to read this web site. Dave Kitching also hosts the IWPA site and has some pages on the Poynton Collieries.
Benjamin Outram http://www.brocross.com/iwps/pages/outram/bn-outram.htm 

IWPA/Bugsworth Basin
http://www.brocross.com/iwps/ 

It is also interesting that Benjamin's son, General Sir James Outram was the defender of Lucknow in the Indian Mutiny.

keith,

Only refs I have are:

Cromford Canal-
Brinsley Wharf to Brinsley Colliery.

Notts Canal-
Langley Bridge to Brinsley Colly, Branch to Beggarlee Colly.
Greasley -Watnall and Wood Pit.
Awsworth to Babbington Collys
Kimberley to NE Grasscroft, old pits.
Strelley Park at Cossall Marsh to pits at Strelley Park Farm.
Robinetts arm of canal to Old Engine (pit).
Trowell Moor, Bramcote to shaws plantation.
Radford Bridge- Radford Colly.
Aspley Wood Short tramways to pits.

Independent Railways-
Wollaton Railway, From W.end of Wollaton Lane to pits at Strelley. Opened 1604.... Britains Oldest Surface Railway.
Shortwood Pits, Landsale Wharf to pit on Catstonehill.

Hope this helps,

ICLOK

---

Sorry... missed your response.... excellent... great potted history, and def archived!

Regards ICLOK

---

Hi there,

As part of the on-going 1603 Wollaton Waggonway investigations I'm trying to discover where the 1554 Wollaton mines drainage sough ran from & to.
There are clues that this may have been a boat level used to convey coal out of the mines.
Has anybody got any information on early boat levels please ?

Keith.

Me too... the only old old surveys don't show any detail sufficient to place the soughs... never heard tell of a boat level though.

Send me your email on a PM and you can have a copy of the waggonway map that a bit clearer if you want it.

will look into soughs again....

Regards ICLOK

---

There are a number of soughs around Wollaton area, they are a few old plans - held at the coal authority in mansfield. There was also a recent paper in Thoroton society journal. http://www.thorotonsociety.org.uk/Thoroton_Society/publications/trans109.htm  which I have a cocopy of.

There's likelt to be not much evidence of them, if you find any of them I'll be grateful to know where they are.

---

Hi there,

Could anyone throw any light on the original functioning of the Watergate complex to be found at coordinates 421900,559900 on
Old-maps.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx  .
It is now water park and is situated south of Whickham & Dunston [south of the Tyne] near Newcastle on Tyne.
I'm guessing that it was a system for controlling the amont of water that was discharged down a mine drainage sough.
I suspect that there was a similar arrangement in Wollaton west of Nottingham both maybe of the same late 1550's/early 1,600's era.

Keith.

See my previous e.mail re. Watergate.

The correct coordinates are 422500,560100.

Sorry.

Keith.

Don't know about the Watergate sough, but often soughs had dual purposes of gravity drainage from mines and transport of coal. They are old 'soughs' which have remains of locks - I assume this keeps water from going in to the mine and also allows sufficient depth of water for boats to carry coal.

The North East has some of the earliest soughs - Probably due to take coal to boats along the Tyne.

Good ref is
Younger, P.L., 2004, "Making water": the hydrogeological adventures of Britain's early mining engineers. In Mather, J.D. (editor) 200 years of British hydrogeology. Geological Society, London, Special Publications 225: 121 - 157.

I'll put a copy in to my personal files

---

Hi there,
Younger, P.L., 2004, "Making water": the hydrogeological adventures of Britain's early mining engineers sounds fasinating.
1. How common were Elizabethan boat levels ?
2. How were the water levels maintained and flooding coped with ?
3. Is there any mention of attempts to drain water out of porous sandstone hillsides where there were water shortages for driving water wheels ? There are clues that this might have been tried in Wollaton where the local bunterstone starts to 'weep' if anything is bought into conatct with it.
Keith [Waggonwayman if you prefer].