Hi there,

Could anyone throw any light on the original functioning of the Watergate complex to be found at coordinates 421900,559900 on
Old-maps.
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx  .
It is now water park and is situated south of Whickham & Dunston [south of the Tyne] near Newcastle on Tyne.
I'm guessing that it was a system for controlling the amont of water that was discharged down a mine drainage sough.
I suspect that there was a similar arrangement in Wollaton west of Nottingham both maybe of the same late 1550's/early 1,600's era.

Keith.

I think I've seen an article in Mining History about this area, dealing with some fairly complex water capture/reuse systems to run water wheels which were pumping out the coal mines in the area. I'll have a dig and see if I can find it.

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As an add-on
I believe that water was taken from Chadwick Sough and was taken around Ecton (via the old reservoir - Fishpond) to the otherside of the hill.

And didn't Arkwirght use water from a sough to power his mills?

Don't know about any dewatering of the sandstone, but if they were driven above the water table, the only 'rainfall' would enter the sough and be discharged with the mine water.

Wouldn't mind seeing that artical in mining history

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Arkrights mill took water from Cromford sough.... I believe the launder bridge over the road into the mill was there until recently...

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Is this the paper you were thinking of?

http://www.pdmhs.com/PDFs/ScannedBulletinArticles/Bulletin%2012-3%20-%20Coalmills%20in%20Tyne%20and%20Wear%20Collieries%20-%20The.pdf 

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Thanks a million.

Both :-

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Personal-Album-176/Making-Water---Younger-2004.pdf 

and :-

http://www.pdmhs.com/PDFs/ScannedBulletinArticles/Bulletin%2012-3%20-%20Coalmills%20in%20Tyne%20and%20Wear%20Collieries%20-%20The.pdf 

made fascinating reading.

Waggonwayman.

Is this the paper you were thinking of?

http://www.pdmhs.com/PDFs/ScannedBulletinArticles/Bulletin%2012-3%20-%20Coalmills%20in%20Tyne%20and%20Wear%20Collieries%20-%20The.pdf 

That's the one - I was looking for it in the Water Power in Mining issue, and wondering why I couldn't find it....

Both Chadwick and Waterbank mines feed into the pond on the East side of Ecton hill, which was originally conveyed in launders around the hill to the dressing floor. Cromford sough originally discharged somewhere around the market place in Cromford, the "bear pit" that you now enter it by was built by Arkwright to divert water towards the mill, although there's a side branch feeds into the upper millpond, which also takes water from Alabaster sough.

There was a court case in the early 19th century between Arkwright and the Meersbrook soughers, due to their lower-level sough cutting off the water in Cromford sough, which resulted in Meersbrook sough being stopped for half a century!

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The last commercial operating plateway/gangroad was the Little Eaton and Denby Gangroad (4'6" gauge).

A most fantastic tramway was made on Dartmoor using carved Granite blocks as rails and because there was no residual value to these stone rails they are still in situ and can be followed as part of the Templer way from the Haytor Quarries (on this site) down to Bovey and Ventiford to meet the Stover canal. This probably gives us the greatest insite into how these early railways really did look.

Early tramways are a whole area of study in its own right as these are the link between mining/quarrying and railways in their truest form but often forgotten as they were eclipsed by the railway mania of the 1820's onwards. Some of these old routes survived well into the modern railway age, its just a shame non survived in any real size. :thumbsup:

Curious about this, the little Eaton is the last Plateway I can find out through internet research as closing around about (off the top of my head 1908?), except for a local one I already knew about......

http://www.peelheritagetrust.net/mapindustrial.htm 

The Isle of Man had the Peel Brickworks Plateway which was horsedrawn and took the clay from a pit to the brickworks (crossing at right angles at ground level the 3ft Gauge Isle of Man Railway). There is some 1930's archive footage from LT Catchpole in the "Manx Railways Throughout the Years" DVD and an image of the plateway on the cover (I have included the link below), and apparently it was still operating during the second world war. Several of the plates have been retrieved from a river and are at the local transport museum (there is also still a cart surviving in the garden of a house).

I am curious as to whether it was the last surviving horsedrawn plateway in the British Isles, as I have read passing mentions of systems operating in the 1960's (though these systems are not identified). However it might not quite fit within the idea of a traditional plateway system being open for any user who has a suitable cart?...

Can anyone name any other plateways surviving post WWII?

Re Haytor, it is a very interesting system and astonishing when you realise how much is still extant. I have a number of images of it when I visited on holiday if anyone wants to see I can post some?

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=Manx+Railways+throughout+the+years&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rlz=1R2ADFA_enGB452&biw=1280&bih=635&tbm=isch&tbnid=J-KKkfCBCwFX8M:&imgrefurl=http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp%3Fpubid%3D1235%26action%3Daddtonotebook&docid=FaoC0XIHvFPYLM&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.transportdiversions.com/images/books/TE1235P.jpg&w=729&h=557&ei=O8ImT8zmIMmZ8QOWsa3dBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=297&sig=103774260460002648040&page=3&tbnh=141&tbnw=173&start=37&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:37&tx=97&ty=100 

I just stumbled across this, interesting enough in another brickworks, but this one at Stoor Hill in Yorkshire which was still running in the 1980's

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/6504290541/ 

And another interesting system at Shibden Dale Fireclay mines (some of the trucks look very archaic too)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/6501807561/in/photostream/ 

And suprising track left in situ 100 years after the closure of Fussell's Lower Ironworks
http://www.flickr.com/photos/93173492@N00/3994625835/ 

Here's one of Haytor - I must admit I hadn't seen this bit, I'd only seen the stuff up by the quarries (which includes numerous points).

Also Blist Hill Museum - I don't think it really counts though as it's in a museum, includes a replica locomotive:-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismullineux/5573853694/ 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vicprinter/3564546624/ 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vicprinter/3564546112/in/photostream/ 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vicprinter/3563727665/in/photostream/ 

Erm, when you click on those first three links you find yourself trying to send an email to them.... is this a site bug Simon?

I've had a look by copying and pasting the URLs, I think that fireclay mine may have been doing what small mines have always done and improvising, in this case with some angle iron for rails and the wheels/axles off a small mill cart

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There is some still in use at Hilltop colliery I think. Although I suspect the mine is not being worked properley just yet, more like development/safety work.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/b3tarev3/6137272983/in/set-72157613994897443 

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The Little Eaton & Denby was a proper railway serving collieries and the canal. These appear to be internal Tramways as against a railway.

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Interesting to see those images. It's noteable that whereas the other plateways seem to mainly consist of the flange of the rail being inside the wheels, from the looks of it the images inside the mine seem to show the flange on the outside of the wheels. I presume flange inwards would be effective with a horsedrawn plateway, preventing the muck from the ground being pushed onto the tracks?

I guess plateways are in a way more easily adapted than an edge system - you can run any wagon on it with enough clearance and with any type of wheel (you could probably even run flanged or rubber tyred wheels on a plateway if the gauge was set right. I guess it makes road/rail operation much easier too?....

Another thing that struck me when I saw the granite railway at Haytor is that perhaps in a way the modern guided busway is a sort of evolution of the plateway - albeit one used for passengers and not freight.....