Is that the same adit (shallow) as the one chopped about by the stoping near NCK?

Sounds interesting.

The Bedford United (Marquis) waterwheel on Blount's shaft is of interst in being referred to in early 18th century documents; the Bedford Estate papers include accounts of the materials being recovered after the mine closed, c1740 I think. The chamber was subsequently largely filled with deads, probably when the mine was reopened in the 1840's, but enough remains accessible to see where it was.

Wheal Friendship workings were extensively explored & surveyed by PCG in the 1980's, but we never found any of the wheel sites, which were probably well above adit level to allow water to be reused to the south of the main workings. We did access the underground inclined planes (confusingly there were three, the mine plans only show two). Unfortunately we lost access on the privatisation of the power industry (CEGB had been the mineral rights owners) & the access shaft to these workings was subsequently capped, the cap now being replaced by a grill (as English Nature were threatening to take the power company to court due to sealing a bat site). Ownership has since changed again.

Burtree Pasture had 3 wheels at 3 diferent levels to pump the shaft but when re-opening the mine in the 1970 all signs of them had gone (posibly thrown down the shaft when closed in the 1880s ) as Gargetts level was as far as the shaft could be cleared.

I've seen pics of that welsh waterwheel before, but know very little about the subject. Did you say it is only 50m along an open level? I'd be most interested to see that

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I have found the entries on the selection of wood for use in wet places very interesting. At the Leawood Pump, Cromford, we have just renewed the wooden seals on the engine Air Pump (exposed to very hot water - condensed steam). Apparently on advice from the Beam Engine restorers at Kew, these have been made, during the Leawood restoration years, from Western Red Cedar.
The pump itself uses wooden seals - two rings of wooden blocks on the lower half of each valve. We have assumed that these were Elm and have tried to replace them with the same. However, there are stories of an alternative being used formerly. These seals are difficult to replace and producing a water tight finish extremely so! There are alternative timbers for an application such as this - any information regarding experience of these would be useful.
I have heard that the Cromford water wheels were once within sight of (Cromford Sough?) explorers but just out of reach. No idea how long ago this was and it would not have been via the sough for a while now!

Alternative timber species for wooden seals in such situations might include poplar, willow and alder.
I've read something in the past twelve months that questions/points out a possible relationship between historical records of and extant populations of Black poplar and reference to mills, maybe water mills. I'm unable to find the reference but it might be in the Quarterly Journal of Forestry or British Wildlife.
I know of the use of Western Red Cedar and its use in the restoration of water wheel paddles; it seems a reasonable choice, although I've never heard of it being used for steam/water seals; interesting.
Consideration might also be given to Lawson and Leyland Cypress!! Have you tried buying Elm recently? :thumbup:

Thank you for your response to the timbers question. Yes, I know, Elm is simply not available and any stored anywhere is closely guarded! There were some Elm stop planks available for making our seals from but I had my personal doubts about condition and even if they were Elm. There has been a bit of a stop plank crisis recently and so I would guess there will be a (County Council) search for alternatives here, as well as our own engine group searches.Your other suggestions noted - we had thought of Alder, with a possible source available. There are other, imported timbers, currently recommended for lock gates and the like which would be worth investigating.
The note on Black Popular is very interesting indeed.

Eurika! I've found the article!
It's in the Quarterly Journal of Forestry, January, 2009.
Volume 103. No. 1. The paper is entitled "The Black Poplar in Norfolk" and is by Barnes, Dallas and Williamson.
You might consider contacting the Royal Forestry Society, in Tring and requesting a re-print of the article, or contacting:-
Dr. Gerry Barnes, Environment Manager, Norfolk County Council, County Hall, Martineau Lane , Norwich, Norfolk.
NR1 2DH.
You might also want to hunt out Charles Ambler's description of 1741 on poplar wood and its particular value to pump makers. NRO. ref. DN/PCD6/5.

I'm going to dig this one up again as I've re-read the Ham Jenks vol, which suggests a waterwheel found 22F from surface west of Daw's Shaft (Western Wheel Shaft). Eastern Wheel Shaft is by the road (Minack's Shaft aka Fire Engine Shaft).

What I find very odd is that the shafts are not shown on the 1880 25" map, but are shown on later editions.

Most interestingly, the 1971 25" shows the pair of shafts one being Western Wheel and another shaft slightly to the WNW of it. This would be the probable site of the other wheel.

I gather the site was prospected in 1905, which is when they found the wheel and it was also reported to have been seen by Arthur Russell at some later date. I haven't had a proper look around the part of the site where the other shaft would be, I presume it's been obscured.

I gather various people have looked for the wheel and I reckon it would be a very interesting thing to pursue (we shall ignore all the hysteria about access for the moment) and I'd be interested in communicating with anyone who has anything to add to this curiosity.

S

Hi Stuey,

If you look at my Penberthy Crofts album I have included piccies of most of the shaft site there. The double one near the road is possibly open but filled with rubbish. The huge double open shaft site to the west would be a likley candidate for a waterwheel. I know it has been well 'dropped' in the past.
(Anyone on AN?)
Would be good to get a definitive answer on wether any remains of the waterwheel are left.
Wheal

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Underground wheel at Morwelham... wow not heard of that one... tell me more... 🙂

This from worldheritagecornwall. can't vouch for it but appears reliable and supports what scooptram said and the DB entry.

There was also a copper mine at the Quay, the George and Charlotte Mine, which operated from the mid eighteenth century until it closed in 1869. When the copper deposits ran out, arsenic was mined instead. Today the George and Charlotte Mine is open to visitors on an electrically driven tram train ride deep into its interior. Inside the mine visitors are able to see visible copper ore seams and a fully working water wheel used to pump water from the lower levels.

The underground wheel in the George and Charlotte is a modern reconstruction (1980s). As I understand it it is a hybrid of two wheels, the axle possibly coming from Belford mill outside Ashburton and the rims from one of the Bovey claypits. The wheel arrangement is based on the Ystrad wheel although it is only configured as a pumping wheel. The wheel is not connected to any pit work although a counterweight hangs in the shaft to counterbalence the balence bob(!). In recent months I have fitted a new kingpost to the balence bob and a new shaft couterweight.

When the idea to install the wheel was first mooted the initial intention was to recover the Ystrad wheel which would have been an unforgivable act of vandelism. Fortunatley saner councils prevailed.

The only underground waterwheels I know about are those at Allenheads mine.
When the mine yard was being cleared in the 1970's a shaft was open in the yard which lead down to the remains of two of them.
The one closest to surface was pretty well intact and the one below it which would have been powered by the feed from the top one was pretty well buried in debris.
I cannot remember how many more would be below the second one I saw but it should be one or two.
When the idea of a museum was being promoted after British Steel had finished with the mine there was a suggestion to restore this wheel on surface.
Since the museum idea did not take off presumably these wheels are still under the yard.
I unfortunately do not have any photos of them but there must other contributors who do.

The only underground waterwheels I know about are those at Allenheads mine.
When the mine yard was being cleared in the 1970's a shaft was open in the yard which lead down to the remains of two of them.
The one closest to surface was pretty well intact and the one below it which would have been powered by the feed from the top one was pretty well buried in debris.
I cannot remember how many more would be below the second one I saw but it should be one or two.
When the idea of a museum was being promoted after British Steel had finished with the mine there was a suggestion to restore this wheel on surface.
Since the museum idea did not take off presumably these wheels are still under the yard.
I unfortunately do not have any photos of them but there must other contributors who do.

Western Wheel (pit) is at the bottom of Daw's Shaft which is the southern of the 2 "PAIR" In the middle of the sett. It's the one partly obscured by undergrowth. Eastern Wheel is by the road and the shaft is open and has been used as a bin.

I gather the wheel in question, which is the candidate for being there is another wheel, not mentioned in any of the usual literature.

What about the little one powering the lights in the compressor chamber in Cwmorthin? 😉

I think a chap called Corin installed it. A lovely piece of work. (The wheel, that is.)