New potash mine in the UK? · AditNow Community

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simonrl
51% (Neutral)
Administration Topic Starter

14 years ago

From the Beeb:

Quote:

Jobs hope in North York Moors potash mine proposal

Hundreds of jobs could be created as part of plans to develop a potash mine between Whitby and Scarborough.

International company Sirius Minerals has announced it is looking into the viability of mining potash - a potassium compound used in fertilisers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-12207668

my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by

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RJV
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

Its hard to imagine them getting permission on that stretch of the coast as I think I'm right in saying that it all falls within the National Park though I suppose they must have explored those avenues to a degree before going public. You would have thought so anyway.

Wonder what they'll do for transport? Re-laying part of the old track between Whitby and Scarborough and then on to Hull maybe but some of that has been turned into footpaths. Taking big trains through the Esk Valley and the heart of the National Park to Teesside doesn't seem likely.

Knocker
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

That will be deep, Boulby was chosen as it was chosen where the Zechstein deposit was at its shallowest. I would have thought it would be more viable to mine continually from Boulby.

ChrisJC
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

"RJV" wrote:
Its hard to imagine them getting permission on that stretch of the coast as I think I'm right in saying that it all falls within the National Park...

Pity that. I'd go for the job creation myself, and b*gger the national park. There's plenty more of them......

Chris.

rikj
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

Interesting. Seems that York Potash Ltd (just acquired by Sirius) have;

Quote:

"signed various agreements with major landowners in relation to extensive mineral rights covering more than 600km2 onshore and offshore"

I don't imagine this is just a speculative punt. Personally I don't think Boulby Potash detracts from the National Park at all. The area has a history of mineral extraction going back hundreds of years, and the potash site is far less intrusive than many quarries in other National Parks.

I'd have thought the main sticking point would be getting the stuff out. Some of the old track into Scarborough is now built on. Maybe drive an underground road to Boulby and pay a wayleave?

RJV
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

"ChrisJC" wrote:

Pity that. I'd go for the job creation myself, and b*gger the national park. There's plenty more of them......

Well the majority of people here are interested in mining on either a professional, academic or recreational basis so that'll probably be agreed on - to a degree.

Wonder what the reaction would be if the story was about Tescos taking advantage of the close proximity of Whitehaven, the A66 and the M6 to build a complex of huge distribution warehouses in the Newlands Valley though? Lots of local jobs could be had there...

"rikj" wrote:

I don't imagine this is just a speculative punt. Personally I don't think Boulby Potash detracts from the National Park at all.

It doesn't, you're right.
Keep building along the coast though and it'll be a completely different matter.

As someone who lives in a massively industrialised area just a few miles outside the National Park can't say I'm hugely in favour of the moors & coast being destroyed.

ChrisJC
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

"RJV" wrote:

Wonder what the reaction would be if the story was about Tescos taking advantage of the close proximity of Whitehaven, the A66 and the M6 to build a complex of huge distribution warehouses in the Newlands Valley though? Lots of local jobs could be had there...

All these man made things are so transient. The Lake District / Northern Yorkshire Dales / Aberystwyth Hinterland, North Pennines etc. etc were all major industrial areas in their day. If you went to Swaledale 150 years ago, I am sure it was disgusting, however, it kept people from starving (just!!)
Nowadays, it's regarded as having beauty, and is protected in various ways. It's not natural however, being denuded of trees, having boundary walls, and covered in sheep. In all, a man-made landscape, as are all the national parks.

Who is to say that in 100 years time, the things we currently declare as outrageous blots on the 'natural' landscape (Forth Rail Bridge) won't be protected beautiful monuments to the past......

I agree it's a difficult call, but on balance, I'm for progress, not the past.

After the next ice-age, it'll all be gone anyway!

Chris.

christwigg
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

"rikj" wrote:

I'd have thought the main sticking point would be getting the stuff out. Some of the old track into Scarborough is now built on. Maybe drive an underground road to Boulby and pay a wayleave?

Although the site isn't stated, I can't see how it could work, you would be looking at something like a 20km tunnel after the expense of sinking your 1000+m shaft then being at the mercy of a competitor imposing a wayleave.

I know nowt about corporate dealings, but does this sound a bit odd ?

As part of the acquisition of York Potash Ltd, its founder, Chris Fraser, has been appointed Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of Sirius Minerals Plc.

Take over a small company and make their founder your MD and CEO instantly ?

Knocker
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

I would anticipate a sale of the company to Cleveland Potash at some stage, I can;t see anyone investing that kind of cash in building a new mine on the same deposit in such close proximity - bear in mind Boulby already extends to some 20km.

The shaft sinking is phenomenally expensive, and then the plant costs, rail loadout etc. If Boulby took it on they would need to sink one shaft at the location for ventilation and probably fit out for man access, and set up surface facilities for men - to reduce lost time in travelling underground. But bear in mind the deposit continues all the way between the two sites - and in fact all the way to Germany.

rikj
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#10

"christwigg" wrote:

I know nowt about corporate dealings, but does this sound a bit odd ?

As part of the acquisition of York Potash Ltd, its founder, Chris Fraser, has been appointed Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of Sirius Minerals Plc.

Take over a small company and make their founder your MD and CEO instantly ?

I'd imagine he's somebody any mining group would want onboard. Sixteen years experience raising serious capital for mining ventures. MD of Citigroup, manager at Rothschilds, partner at KPMG etc.

York Potash Ltd was formed in 2010 and incurred an operating loss of £300k+, with liabilities of £140k+. At a wild guess I'd say he's put in his own money, bought the data, employed analysts etc. Then York Potash can approach Sirius and say, "want 6bn tons of potash?"

Even more attractive if the mineral rights are all signed up as well.

AR
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#11

"rikj" wrote:

I'd have thought the main sticking point would be getting the stuff out. Some of the old track into Scarborough is now built on. Maybe drive an underground road to Boulby and pay a wayleave?

If they're looking at near Whitby (which would be my guess) then at a pinch you could get tracks back from the railway at Whitby to the Hawsker area without hitting any problems other than maintenance of the Esk viaduct, but as soon as you get to Bay, the course of the line has been built on. Likewise, from the Scarborough end there's a supermarket on the old Gallows Close goods yard and houses on the line of the track at Scalby so I don't think they'll be going that way. Alternatively, they may be looking at a site in the Esk valley itself - did the old shipyard at Whitby ever get redeveloped?

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

blackshiver
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#12

I hear they are going to widen the Whitby piers to take Swedish barges, fix the swing bridge properly, opencast the deposit and fill the resulting hole with Tesco packaging landfill. Apparently the 5000 promised jobs are projected to reduce the interbreeding in the area by a significant amount.

Ty Gwyn
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#13

How far South of Boubly is this new project?

A New project like this would be in the region of £3-500m i would imagine,if not more

What life expectancy has Boubly?

derrickman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#14

I don't think anyone need lose any sleep fretting about the danger to the National Park from mining activities around the Whitby - Scarborough area in any foreseeable future.

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.

simonrail
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#15

I think blackshiver is confusing extractive industries in this area - it was alum production where they used to take the urine ...

30 years ago Yorkshire Potash were proposing a mine at Hawsker just south of Whitby which was to be rail served via Whitby. That route is still viable although a cycleway at present.

Investing in excess of £500 million with no return is OK at present while the price of the mineral is high but how long will that last? Boulby to Hawsker is over 10 miles and not sure that CPL would want to be involved; nor that there is sufficient capacity to deal with the output at Boulby.

A future second mine might be within the Nat. Park but then Boulby was allowed to develop within it and the 900 jobs there are a good incentive to allow Yorks. Potash to go ahead.

Yes, I'll have it - what is it?

derrickman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#16

I don't believe that CPL's owners would have any serious incentive for that sort of investment when they have open-cut interests overseas. Remember that the sinking of the shaft and intial development bankrupted the original company.

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.

Edd
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#17

I was up at Boulby on Tuesday and picked up a bit from the banter. The discussion was that the vein depth is estimated about 1500 - 1800m deep where they intend to mine and they reckon the setup amount is very likely to be closer to £1 Bn depending on there methods. Although at that depth it would likely be solution mining due to the temperature at that depth.

From what i could pick up they were not really bothered as the company would be looking at around 10 years of setup before any production could occur and that's if they ever get going in the first place.

'I started reading it with full intention to read it all and then got bored and went and got beer instead!'

christwigg
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#18

I thought much the same, Boubly don't mine in that direction because its getting deeper and hotter.

Edd
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#19

Think Neil said it was close to 50 celcius at 1300m!!

'I started reading it with full intention to read it all and then got bored and went and got beer instead!'

derrickman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

14 years ago

#20

solution mining is an interesting concept.

''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.