New event added 'Smallcleugh cleanup trip' on 23/03/2014 at 10:30

Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians

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gNick
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11 years ago

A new event has been added to the Events page.

Event name: Smallcleugh cleanup trip

Date & time: 23/03/2014 at 10:30

Details: A trip to remove the arrows & other assorted graffiti and the inevitable rubbish from the tourist section of Smallcleugh.
Technically an NMCS trip but everyone welcome (you will need a BCA green card though).

Bringing cleaning things would be handy as we don't have a huge amount.
Things like wire brushes, scrubbing brushes, blow-lamps, paintstripper, etc.

Event added by: gNick

Full event: http://www.aditnow.co.uk/events/?uid=264

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

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RJV
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11 years ago

Bump.

gNick
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11 years ago

A little reminder that the trip to de-graffiti Smallcleugh is on this Sunday and all are welcome.

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

gNick
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11 years ago

A good trip had, the majority of grafitti removed, including a fair amount of the painted stuff.
Thanks to all who gave up their Sunday for spring cleaning!

One unpleasant discovery, some low life scum had scratched their names into the plaster in Smallcleugh flats - looked like a young person party. They had better hope I don't find out who they are...

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

christwigg
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11 years ago

"gNick" wrote:
A good trip had, the majority of grafitti removed, including a fair amount of the painted stuff.
Thanks to all who gave up their Sunday for spring cleaning!

One unpleasant discovery, some low life scum had scratched their names into the plaster in Smallcleugh flats - looked like a young person party. They had better hope I don't find out who they are...

Good work.

Was anyone brave enough to remove the hairy sandwich from the Ballroom ? I think it might have fought back if you tried.

Whilst it may now seen unsavoury that a group of kids have scratched their name into the plaster. If it said "1855" at the end i'm sure we would all be taking photos and coo-ing in wonder.

When does grafitti become history ?
(NOTE: Rhetorical question, not asking for a date :lol: )

sinker
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11 years ago

"christwigg" wrote:

When does grafitti become history ?
(NOTE: Rhetorical question, not asking for a date :lol: )

That has always been a very interesting question, but I have never asked it because of the can of worms that it is bound to open....but seeing as YOU asked....
I suppose the old answer is still the best...it all depends on context. If you climbed Everest and found Edmund Hilary's name carved up there it would, to me be acceptable.
If I went into Cwmorthin today and carved my name it would be vandalism. If Cwmorthin then collapsed and was left alone for a couple of hundred years and some 23rd century mine explorers dug their way in and saw "Phil Boyes, 2014" it would be archaeology.... :confused:

Yma O Hyd....

RJV
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11 years ago

A black & white view perhaps but... if the name is of somebody who worked there then its history.

If its of an explorer or tourist then its vandalism. If you're the first explorer there and you want your name recorded for posterity then put it in a journal or publish a survey etc?

rufenig
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11 years ago

"RJV" wrote:
A black & white view perhaps but... if the name is of somebody who worked there then its history.

If its of an explorer or tourist then its vandalism. If you're the first explorer there and you want your name recorded for posterity then put it in a journal or publish a survey etc?

Well for instance when you get to the remote end of a mine and see G.H. D.E.B. in soot from a carbide lamp that's history to me.
(George Hall David Bick both now sadly gone.)

RJV
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11 years ago

"rufenig" wrote:
Well for instance when you get to the remote end of a mine and see G.H. D.E.B. in soot from a carbide lamp that's history to me.

Whilst I see your point entirely Rufenig and indeed agree with it to a degree, the problem is, how do you judge that its valid for David Bick or George Hall to leave their names scrawled upon a wall but not say Daz ov Cov 2010 and how would you explain that to Daz of Cov?

Both of the individuals you have mentioned have recorded things 'properly' & that seems to me to be the best way.

exspelio
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11 years ago

#10

I suppose some of the "Trog" graffiti in Matlock Bath could be considered history nowadays, although it was considered vandalism 40 years ago.

It is a record of the cult following of the late '60's early '70's.

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.

gNick
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11 years ago

#11

Old explorer graffiti can be interesting but is still damage to an historic site and to my mind it demeans the memory of the people in question.
In the same way old Top Deck cans, old mineral collector's newspapers or discarded flash cubes are historically interesting because they are old, they are still litter that selfish people didn't take home.

We got most of the mouldy food piles from the Ballroom - some put up a bit of a fight...

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

christwigg
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11 years ago

#12

Did you actually remove the decades of grafitti from the walls of the Ballroom ?

I must be coming across as a bit of a 'grafitti sympathiser' but that has become something of a historical record of exploration now.

Whatever did become of 'York Microlight Services' ?

Pinzgauer
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11 years ago

#13

I know I've mentioned this before in another context, but "Impeach Nixon" in carbide soot inside Parc Mine, Llanrwst, I would now regard as being "history". I well remember at the time it was done, "bloody vandals" sprang to mind.

An allied question comes to mind - when DOES rod become wire ?? 😉

Who threw the overalls in Mrs Murphy''s Chowder ??

gNick
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Newbie Topic Starter

11 years ago

#14

"christwigg" wrote:
Did you actually remove the decades of grafitti from the walls of the Ballroom ?

Yes

"christwigg" wrote:
I must be coming across as a bit of a 'grafitti sympathiser' but that has become something of a historical record of exploration now.

Plenty of good graffiti left, generally easy to spot as done with much better calligraphy than anything modern. They get upper and lower case mixed but but very nicely done. The kids of today just don't write proper.

"christwigg" wrote:
Whatever did become of 'York Microlight Services' ?

That footnote is now consigned to history I'm afraid.
Particularly irritating being advertising as well as graffiti!

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

gNick
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Newbie Topic Starter

11 years ago

#15

"Pinzgauer" wrote:
An allied question comes to mind - when DOES rod become wire ?? ;D

Rod rolled, wire drawn - me sad.

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

John Lawson
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11 years ago

#16

I think that you and your friends are doing an excellent job. Unfortunately in the early 60's it seemed to be the fashion that having been through Hethrington's Cross Cut, down first Sun Vein and Smallcleugh Sun Vein to the ballroom, then the explorers, just had to leave their name there.
I had even been told of someone who took a ladder into the flat, so that his signature was higher than anyone else's!
If there are any mitigating circumstances, it could only be that these graffiti merchants are following a long tradition as anyone who has been in the Hudgill Cavern knows only too well!

ebgb
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11 years ago

#17

is there a cut off point out of interest? A point at which litter becomes an artefact and graffiti becomes of interest. I've stumbled upon a variety of 1970's 'litter' and got quite nostalgic about whatever the product was, which made it of interest to me anyways - starting to think top deck was the obligatory drink for the 70's explored having seen it in several mines, along with cresta, and once, and this delighted me massively - a full packet of spangles!

I guess with graffiti, none of it 'should' be there regardless of age, but the ancient stuff is of historical value. I suppose microlight club graffiti could have amusingly caused endless debate in another 100 years as to the who's why's and wherefores!

http://bf494.co.uk

Gavin
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11 years ago

#18

There was some discussion to whether that sandwich had evolved in to a life form of some sort?.
The reason for this discussion was it seemed to flinch when you shone a torch at it !!!!! :lol:

GAVIN