As suggested in the comments above it would be interesting to make contact and collect some history from these people. There was certainly a lot more open back in the mid-sixties, which has been lost for a variety of reasons, including walling up by the Council. Later research has shown that some once legendary connections might possibly have existed.

As I recall, the entrance to Wapping was never FBF*.



*Fat Bloke Friendly.:lol:

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They were a loose collection of bikers, drop-outs and suchlike who took over the former show-cave of Cumberland Cavern (the upper part of the Wapping system) in the late 1960s, and used it as a party base. Some of them apparently did live there full time, in particular one member who'd gone AWOL from the army and was in hiding. Their tag was an S crossed over a T, which you see in most of the mines that were accessible around the area at that time, including some quite hard-to-find and access ones so some of them at least were competent cavers. They certainly had carbide lamps as the majority of their graffiti is smoked on.

There is a LOT of very interesting graffiti in there a lot of the older stuff is in pencil . Everytime we go in we find just another bit of intricate " artwork " somewhere tucked away,some in beautiful old english script .

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Here's some of it. You can spend a good half-hour here playing 'find the oldest':

🔗111222[linkphoto]111222[/linkphoto][/link]

Graffiti is an odd thing. If I wrote in nicely formed letters TOM 2021 somewhere, people would look in disgust and it'd make me an ***h*le.

But if I'd done the exactly same thing back in in 1821, you'd admire the work

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I think Wapping (or maybe Cumberland) was my first real explore, in February 1972. I got bus to Derby from Birmingham, and a bus to Matlock and walked up a steep lane to find an adit entrance.

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I think Wapping (or maybe Cumberland) was my first real explore, in February 1972. I got bus to Derby from Birmingham, and a bus to Matlock and walked up a steep lane to find an adit entrance.

That sounds more like Devonshire

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Graffiti is an odd thing. If I wrote in nicely formed letters TOM 2021 somewhere, people would look in disgust and it'd make me an ***h*le.

But if I'd done the exactly same thing back in in 1821, you'd admire the work

Spot on buddy the amount of times we have said and thought the same thing, when its new " nothing but vandals " when its old its admired !!

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Here's some of it. You can spend a good half-hour here playing 'find the oldest':

🔗111222[linkphoto]111222[/linkphoto][/link]

Ha Ha we have spent a LOT longer than than over many trips

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Graffiti is an odd thing. If I wrote in nicely formed letters TOM 2021 somewhere, people would look in disgust and it'd make me an ***h*le.

But if I'd done the exactly same thing back in in 1821, you'd admire the work

Spot on buddy the amount of times we have said and thought the same thing, when its new " nothing but vandals " when its old its admired !!

I think there is almost an agreed convention of 50 years old becoming worth preserving?

I think it's about context. Graffiti done when a mine was working is obviously of historical interest and one can't really decry the graffiti of those that dug the mine in the first place! I imagine at the time no-one cared much.

Graffiti of historical visitors and explorers in previous centuries/decades and reflecting post-mining uses is also of interest as it adds to the history of the site.

Even some modern explorers will admit to adding a name and date to the far end of difficult to access/remote areas. Similarly this perhaps also adds interest and acts as some sort of record.

I think to add such things to a site you really have to ask yourself carefully what your motivation is and if you are adding anything positive by doing so - not to mention what you are potentially covering up!

Some fellow in the 1800's exploring with a candle was probably doing something pretty exceptional at the time. Someone wandering through Wapping these days with a can of special brew, LED torch and some aerosol paint probably less worthy of permanent record...

Graffiti can be a wonderful thing, where appropriate, and done tastefully. You can even gauge someone's intelligence from the graffiti they leave. I would have been less upset with the recent Giants vandalism if they'd sat down and spent two hours neatly chiselling their initials somewhere, instead of spray-painting purple all over stalagmites. But that's because they're stupid, and there's no cure for that.

This is some of my fave graffiti, as it was clearly from previous explorers, photographed under High St. in Sheffield city centre by Frank Brindley in 1935:

https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;s09545&pos=18&action=zoom&id=12648 

https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;s09546&pos=19&action=zoom&id=12649 

Some fellow in the 1800's exploring with a candle was probably doing something pretty exceptional at the time. Someone wandering through Wapping these days with a can of special brew, LED torch and some aerosol paint probably less worthy of permanent record...

Couldn't have put it better myself :thumbsup:

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Nail on the head there Paul :thumbup:

MARK

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