http://delwedd.llgc.org.uk/delweddau/jth/jth00609.jpg?return_url=http%3a%2f%2fcat.llgc.org.uk%3a80%2fcgi-bin%2fgw%2fchameleon%3fsessionid%3d2015030319331235725%26skin%3deresources%26submittheform%3dSearch%26usersrch%3d1%26beginsrch%3d1%26function%3dINITREQ%26search%3dKEYWORD%26rootsearch%3dKEYWORD%26histsearch%3dKEYWORD%26elementcount%3d6%26lng%3den%26pos%3d1%26t1%3dmine%26u1%3d1035%26op1%3dAND%26t2%3d%26u2%3d1035%26op2%3dAND%26t3%3d%26u3%3d1035%26precision4ua%3d1033%26precision4%3d003381774%26host%3dlisbon.llgc.org.uk%252B9901%252BDEFAULT 

From the National Library of Wales collection.

Great pic.

http://delwedd.llgc.org.uk/delweddau/jth/jth00609.jpg?return_url=http%3a%2f%2fcat.llgc.org.uk%3a80%2fcgi-bin%2fgw%2fchameleon%3fsessionid%3d2015030319331235725%26skin%3deresources%26submittheform%3dSearch%26usersrch%3d1%26beginsrch%3d1%26function%3dINITREQ%26search%3dKEYWORD%26rootsearch%3dKEYWORD%26histsearch%3dKEYWORD%26elementcount%3d6%26lng%3den%26pos%3d1%26t1%3dmine%26u1%3d1035%26op1%3dAND%26t2%3d%26u2%3d1035%26op2%3dAND%26t3%3d%26u3%3d1035%26precision4ua%3d1033%26precision4%3d003381774%26host%3dlisbon.llgc.org.uk%252B9901%252BDEFAULT

a superb photo what makes you believe it was taken in 1885? It was indicated to me there is no smoke or steam rising from the chimneys which would indicate a much later date when production had slowed down?
Mike

Is that the halvans re-processing building and feed gantry visible at the edge of the white tip?
I forget the exact date but it was quite a bit after 1885 when that was operating.

Is that the halvans re-processing building and feed gantry visible at the edge of the white tip?
I forget the exact date but it was quite a bit after 1885 when that was operating.

Yes it is the Halvans and they were processing the tips from 1911. Hence me wondering how the date of 1885 was suggested.

Mike

According to the National Library of Wales, who own the glass negative, this photo is from the John Thomas collection which

consists of over 4,000 negatives taken by the photographer in north, mid and west Wales during the period ca.1863-ca. 1899

The photographer died in 1905.

According to the National Library of Wales, who own the glass negative, this photo is from the John Thomas collection which

consists of over 4,000 negatives taken by the photographer in north, mid and west Wales during the period ca.1863-ca. 1899

The photographer died in 1905.

Can't really argue with that then. The Halvans building must have been there earlier than supposed?

It is shown on the First Edition 1:2500 map which is ca 1880.

It is shown on the First Edition 1:2500 map which is ca 1880.

Yes all the buildings show up on the 6 inch OS map published in 1885.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101594572 
A close examination of the picture suggests that the building shown on the white tips may not be the brick structure that remains today (although in the same location.)
Also the "eye of faith" sees smoke coming from the compressor house. These were difficult years for the Snailbeach company and the picture may coincide with a slack period or a Sunday.
:smartass: I.M.H.O.

Looking closely at the photo there are a few features which put a "no later than" date to it, but not much in the way of clues as to the actual date.

1. The Halvans engine house (the building with the chimney and long wooden gantry out onto the white tips), middle left, was reputedly built 'about' 1900 when the Halvans company was formed - but they might have used a pre-existing building.

2. The headframe over Old shaft (middle left of the picture) has 2 sheaves. It was reduced to a single sheave some time between 1911 and 1913.

3. The Compressor house - building with the 2 large chimneys on the right was built in 1881. There is no sign of scaffold, so it's likely to be after 1881 ... say 1882.

So realistically you can say the picture was taken some time between 1882 and 1911, based on point 1 the date range could be reduced to 1900-1911. If we know the photographer died in 1905, we are potentially left with a 5 year window.

The lack of smoke and steam from chimneys is also curious.

There is a picture taken from almost the same position on page 29 of "West Shropshire Mining Fields", dated 1910, but there are a few slight differences.

It is very good to see the friendly discussion that publishing this picture has opened up.

Looking at the picture dated c1910 in Ivors book the most interesting change is that a curved tramway has been built from "landing level" to feed the crusher house.
Suggesting to me a later date than the first picture, but construction would not have taken long.

There exists a photograph dated 1900 taken in the reverse direction looking up at the Lords Hill engine house. This also shows the curved tramway (from below.)
This picture is in private ownership so I can not post it here.

I am reminded that it is 120 years today that seven men were killed in the accident when the rope broke on Georges shaft. 😞

The National Library of Wales hold the John Thomas collection of about 3320 photographs ( he was reputed to have taken well over 25,000 during his working life, probably the rest used for a glasshouse somewhere in Liverpool!!). The library seem to date most of the pictures as ca 1885! Most of them are of preachers, or failing that chapels. However there are many of industry, and many of the published pictures of railways in mid to North Wales ( and some of Shropshire) during 1863 to 1900 seem to have been taken by John Thomas. There are also a selection of local characters and many ,many of donkeys!! Well worth trawling through the collection.

This one of the Glyn Valley Tramway is one not often seen:-


http://delwedd.llgc.org.uk/delweddau/jth/jth00486.jpg?return_url=http%3a%2f%2fcat.llgc.org.uk%3a80%2fcgi-bin%2fgw%2fchameleon%3fsessionid%3d2015030618510419544%26skin%3deresources%26lng%3den%26inst%3dconsortium%26host%3dlisbon.llgc.org.uk%252b9901%252bDEFAULT%26patronhost%3dlisbon.llgc.org.uk%25209901%2520DEFAULT%26search%3dKEYWORD%26searchid%3dH1%26sourcescreen%3dINITREQ%26itempos%3d1%26rootsearch%3dKEYWORD%26pos%3d11%26function%3dNEXTPAGE 


Sorry about the link. I do not know how else to send the pictures.

Is there an index online and can the pictures be viewed?

Try:-

http://www.llgc.org.uk/collections/digital-gallery/photographs0/johnthomas/how-to-search-and-view-the-results/ 

On right hand side, find "search the catalogue" click

On new page under key word enter . (full stop) 9 or any word you like e.g.railway)and then under search collection select John Thomas. click on search .


It is not an easy site , but well worth it.

For 1950-1980 photographs there's also a collection from Geoff Charles, who was a press photographer.