Dear Sougher
That was blinkin ace, ...copied to my archive... especially the ref to the mythical 'barking dog' that we all heard of (well at least those who caved in the 80s)... please put this on the mine description... or I will... thanks... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Thanks Sougher - very interesting material there.
I suppose it would have been 1965/66 when I first visited Jug Holes. The sump then was deep green water, not what it is now. Rails extended from the end of the track out from the cave mouth back up through the wood to a loading area with lorry access to the gate on Salters Lane (another set though?).
I had been told that the Oxclose connection was found by the Oxclose mine engineer in the 1950's but the link was stated to be there by a reliable source in the 1990's. News not long after this was, yes, there was a connection but it was very tight and then that it had gone (closed?). More recently I heard that a named caver had found another entrance to Jug Holes but I have no more details of that.
I had been told that Hut shaft had only rubbish at the bottom, though on a basic survey is stated to connect with "extensive caverns" - a beautiful shaft as we have said. The same survey shows that the 1st water Cavern had been lost by quarrying to the rear of the present cave entrance.
The large entrance cave has tons of deads stacked in it to a depth of many feet (as we all know) - what might lie under them? And why is there access to the Upper Series, over the deads and down a shaft walled with deads, when there is so little evidence of mining down there?
As always we see the remains of workings, backfiled, collapsed, dumped in or whatever and we try to make sense of what was there or might have been there.

Speaking of Op Mole, the legendary film of them "The Underground Journey" has been transferred to DVD by Dave Webb. For anyone tht doesn't know about this, it purports to show a round trip up Meerbrook sough, along the gulph fault mines and back out along Cromford sough - theoretically possible, but only with a great deal of digging out.....

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AR - I have a copy of "Underground Journey" given to me by my caver son for Christmas, shews my ex-No.l on it! Being in the know, I recognise various mines used in the filming of it! No way did my fellow "Moles" travel all the way underground from entering Meerbrook sough at the "tail" and exiting at Cromford sough "tail" - a long tale indeed! The Oxclose mine (look out for the date of 1666) was used for filming when they claimed they were in Ratchwood mine at Wirksworth, and a quarry with water was used as a substitute for underground shots with filming taking place at night. Seriously though, it was a good effort at the time in the early 1960's when Doug Fearn (sadly deceased) shot the film. I was instrumental in making the first approach to the then Trent Water Board for permission to explore the Meerbrook sough, so I helped a little.

Iclok - copy or add whatever you want of the information that I've supplied to the mine description, but please distinquish about the lead vein being called the Noon Nick mine with Jugholes cave lying on the southern end of it, now that we've found the 1767 map with the cave marked on it. I'll try and find the reference in the Derbyshire Record Office of John Nuttall's map also the Frank Brindley's frightening newspaper articles both on the scalded miner and barking dog of Jugholes, also the Winster Earth Tremors of February, 1952. His article about the lead mines collapsing beneath the village was the reason why Op Mole were asked to carry out exploration of some of them, the villagers were scared to death after reading it. Record and copy what you want because once my generation of cavers go to "that mine in the sky" that Minerat is fond of mentioning, all these old memories will go with us, and it's better to have some recorded semi-accurate memories rather than try and invent or imagine what took place, at a later date.

Thrutch - Obviously the rails that you saw from the cave mouth back up through the wood to a loading area was the result of the 1950's mining. The book "Peakland Lead Mines and Miners" by H. M. Parker and L. Willies published by Moorland Publishing 1979 shews under the section "Mining for Other Materials" item 80 (n.b. the pages are unnumbered) Jugholes Mines, Snitterton, near Matlock, a small write-up of the mine and a very good photograph of the 1950's mining operations with rails and wagons in the back of the large open cavern - during this operation opencasting took place inside the wood. A copy of this book can be found at the Derbyshire Local Studies Library, Bank Road, Matlock.

Re Oxclose mine, in the same book Item 83 - Oxclose Mine, Snitterton, Matlock about 1950, again gives a small write-up and a surface picture taken inside the engine house of the cage and the spar miners. There was no mine engineer as such, it wasn't big enough, the engineer would have worked for Derbyshire Stone as a whole and Oxclose would have been under his care, there were only five workmen working the mine. I had at least a couple of rides in the cage down to the 300 foot level - quite an experience, the mine was unproductive and closed early in the New Year of 1952. A 1918 Leyland Fire Engine was driven up to the Oxclose mine and it's engine stripped out and that was used for powering the cage down and up the shaft. That's all gone now.

I can honestly say you cannot physically travel underground between Jugholes and Oxclose. The link you are talking about between Oxlose and Jugholes must be in fact the Oxclose/Snickers New Sough, which was driven from the west bank of the River Derwent (you can find the sough tail in a collapsed state beneath the railway bridge where it crosses the River Derwent - it's on the public footpath that follows the west bank of the River Derwent northwards from Matlock Bridge to Snitterton), the water issuing forth from the "tail" is draining Oxclose, Leawood (or Robinson's) Pipe and the Noon Nick (i.e. Jugholes) Vein which lie parallel to each other westwards from Jugholes. In the mid 1990's there was an attempt to dive the sough into an adjoining mine to the east of Oxclose, but without success. Nellie Kirkham was the person who originally supplied the information about the New Oxclose sough in the 1950's, and more information about New Oxclose sough and drainage of the surrounding area can be found in "The History & Gazetteer of the Lead Mine Soughs of Derbyshire" by J. H. Rieuwerts published by J. H. Rieuwerts 1987 (of which I'm lucky to have a copy) pp. 81 - 83. New Oxclose/Snickers sough was commenced driving in 1758, Snickers is a branch off it but seemingly goes nowhere, it finally intersected the Oxclose Pipe in 1773 after a drive of over 4,500 feet.

I have reference in a will of a member of the Fearn family (who eventurally lived at Snitterton Hall in the late 1600's) to Oxclose mine being worked along with other mines in the area and the date of the will is 1535. This proves that continuous working has taken place throughout the centuries on the Noon Nick vein and surrounding areas (as occurred in the rest of the King's/Queen's Field of Derbyshire), it probably peaked in the mid to late 1700's (wouldn't it be nice to be a time traveller and go back and see all the mines working around that time, along with fire engines [i.e. Newcomen engines] smelting etc. taking place - talk about climate change!).

Another piece of information I was told in the 1950's by a retired quarryman from Wensley was that at the outbreak of World War One, many trees were chopped down for the war effort especially in Jugholes Wood and Leawood (to the west of Jugholes), so that would have also have changed the landscape. Incidently the crusher and processing plant at Megdale where the opencasted material was taken to in the 1940's/50's, was sited in Cawdor quarry approximately where the new Sainbury's Supermarket has been built in Matlock.

Sougher - I showed the photograph of the Oxclose Miners to a man I was then working with in a totally unrelated profession. On viewing the photograph he could not understand why he was not on it - until he realised he took it. Employed as a fitter at Oxclose he moved on to Riber Mine and gave an account of the (first) garden disappearance in Starkholmes.
You make such a very important point about recording information - and so much is in the hands of various people who are not in touch with each other or a site like this.

quite right what you say thrutch, we all have some info or other, some of us have more than others, I know of a couple of instances when an old friend of mine died who I hadnt seen for a few years, he was employed going down shafts in yorkshire, weardale and blanchland, he had hundreds of fotos and books on every place he visited, how he got in,what he found etc.etc. it was given to a man who won`t do anything with the info..just keep it till hes gone then its in a skip. I have been trying to encourage him to let me buy copies offered him my left and right arm...he`s thinking about it.
The other instance was over the last 2/3 years when a company was closing down, so they cleared the old mans office..mahogany desks cupboards etc etc hand made on the premises, hundreds and hundreds of documents, maps etc had been burned until my friend started back to work and went mental, he managed to salvage some which I now own..unless people are aware of the historic value of the stuff they have they will continue to burn it. sad story...repeated so many times I`m sure.

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I have only just noticed this thread about Jug Hole. I can add a bit from my own knowledge.

Regarding Jug Hole Cave and its legends, various details of these were given in Roger Flindall’s P.D.M.H.S. Bulletin on murders.
Some details of its 20th Century history appear in Roger Flindall’s massive Calendar of the Barmaster’s Collection at Chatsworth that was published by P.D.M.H.S. in 1998 (517 typewritten pages). The following details are from this source:

Regarding its ownership: As Jug Hole or Noon Nick Mine, its lead mining title was sold by Samuel Petts of Oaker, miner, to the Jug Hole Mining Company of 45 Museum Street, London, for 10 shillings. This company was fronted by Joseph Reginald Coltman of The Old Mill House, Darley Bridge, and from the company, it was transferred to Frederick Loasby of 45 Museum Street, London, builder, for £400 in May 1927. He then worked on a small scale but died in about 1935. In 1938, the title was nicked by Jonathan Hole (and E. Rippon) of 7 Buxton Terrace, School Road, Matlock.

During January 1927, it was stated that the miners at Jug Hole had “struck a good vein in the lower level following in the direction of Snickers Suff”. About 80 tons of poor quality fluorspar and lead ore mix was got. It was said that they had a 2-foot square rich vein.

The Daily Dispatch newspaper of 12 March 1927 has a photograph (4 inches by 2½ inches) of two men hauling a wagon along an 18 inch gauge tramway at Jug Hole Mine. This is item 126/49 (i) in the Barmaster’s Collection at Chatsworth. Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of it.

After being almost at a standstill for a year, in June 1928 a new Ingersoll Rand compressor and drills were purchased at a cost of £440.

In March 1929, a Mr. Martin from the Institute of Mining was said to be making a survey of Jug Hole Mine.

I was round Jug Hole c1974 but I never did any proper exploration so cannot add anything from personal experience.

Hope this is of interest. I agree with what has been posted earlier about the importance of preserving memories from the 20th Century period of spar mining and exploration. It is often more difficult to research that period than the lead mining era.

Thank you historytrog, more gaps filled! Looks like a lot of interest in the site historically, along with hopes for it and money spent.
I have been looking at the maps published on mine-explorer.co.uk and these show the veins and soughs mentioned in this thread. Yet again, along with answers come more questions and the difficulty relating currently known workings to those recorded. I note that Gentlewoman's Pipe is not marked exactly where we would expect it on one of the above maps. While in that area has anyone had a look around the quarry now being opened up for development North of Artists Corner (in case there is anything to be seen there)?

Don't take the barmaster's maps as gospel on what goes where or what vein's called what. They were done by George Eagle and John Mort senior drawing straight lines on maps based on what they'd gleaned from barmote jurymen added to bits of the geological survey, so although they give a fair idea of where the veins are and what they're called they're not always right.

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AR - To add further to your posting. I can remember clearly in the 1950's with other club members, accompanying Nellie Kirkham armed with her O.S. maps that had been marked up by John Mort Snr. (the then Barmaster) looking for mines, shafts etc., and trying to locate them with her with the aid of these maps. She was very friendly with John Mort Snr., she often conferred with him on these maps, he gave her access to the records of the Barmote Court when they were lodged in the Whitworth Institute before being deposited at Chatsworth House, and she was regularly out in the King's/Queen's Field with him looking at mines etc. She regularly visited another Officer of the Barmote Court (The Steward) Major Symmonds a solicitor at his offices in Wirksworth. She always stressed that one could only use the lines marked by the Barmaster onto the O.S. maps as a guide to assist one to find a particular mine, it did not give the actual location.

To try to locate an actual mine from old records is a complicated process. One way of doing it, if one is lucky enough as both "historytrog" and myself are to own a copy of Roger Flindall's "Calendar of the Barmaster's Records at Chatsworth", is to check through it to see what Barmaster's books are available for what Mining Liberty one is interested in, go to the Derbyshire Record Office as I did many years ago, get a copy (I sketched a copy map and copied the Tithe Schedule of the area I was interesed in) of the Tithe Map of the area. Tithe Maps date from the 1830's to the 1850's, and are accompanied by a Schedule which shews who owns what field, house, barn etc., whether they are in residence or to whom they rent the house, field, barn etc. out to. Most importantly it gives the field names, use of field and numbers. (DRO are now producing copies of Derbyshire Tithe Maps WITHOUT the Schedule on CD-Rom for £15 plus £1.50 p & p, which is pointless, as the Map depends on the Schedule and visa versa, one without the other is useless). With all the Barmote Court records now being lodged at Chatsworth House, one would have to approach the Archivist there to view them and it is costly. However, through a very kind friend I was able to type up extracts from Barmaster's Books for Matlock Liberty, relating to the Township of Snitterton, within Matlock Mining Liberty which is the area that includes the Noon Nick Vein, Jugholes etc. With a younger caving friend we were proposing to work out the Barmaster's entry for a particular mine, using his measurements (Imperial NOT Metric), compass directions, field names and field boundaries that he mentioned to help locate what we were looking for. Alas as with all good projects, we lapsed and I am now left with all my notes.

As a final note, Mining Liberties boundaries can get complicated, and I would prefer to post about them in more detail on the other topic I started "The Derbyshire Barmote Court - the leadmining court, it's laws and customs". However, because of the interest in the Noon Nick Vein on which the Jugholes cave system is sited I'll try and explain the complexities of the townships, parishes and mining liberties which overlap in this particular area. Normally Mining Liberty boundaries follow Parish boundaries. This area is an exception. The townships of Snitterton and Wensley originally lay within the Parish of Darley Dale, until 1845 when the Parish was split into two, the River Derwent being the dividing boundary. South of the river a new church was built at South Darley and that part of the old Darley Dale parish became the parish of South Darley, the northern part remaining as Darley Dale. There are two Tithe Maps and Schedules (dated in the 1850's) one for the old parish north of the River Derwent which doesn't contain any mines,and the other is the South Darley Tithe Map and Schedule and is the one I looked at and is composed of the Townships of Snitterton and Wensley. As previously stated Mining Liberties usually follow parish boundaries, but the Mining Liberty of Matlock encroaches over the old Darley Dale/new South Darley parish boundary and includes the Township of Snitterton within it's boundaries. Northern Dale is used as the Mining Liberty boundary, so all mines such as Noon Nick, Lea Wood etc., lying to the east of Northern Dale are in Matlock Mining Liberty and mines such as Old Mill Close, Dale, Davies, Tearsall etc., lying to the west of Northern Dale are within the Mining Liberty of Wensley. Gets confusing doesn't it!

Below are a few extracts from Barmaster's Books for Matlock Mining Liberty, which shews typical entries.

Barmaster's Book No. 46

15th August, 1833. Copy. An Agreement between Mr. John GARTON on the one part and Jacob Sheldon & his Partners on the other part Partners at the NOON NICK MINE into which Mr. Garton has had a bull fallen down a shaft in the NOON NICK TITLE. Whereas Jacob Sheldon & his partners delivers up the said NOON NICK TITLE unto Mr. Gratton for the loss of his bull.

As Witness our hands Jacob Sheldon, William Sheldon, Joe Boden, Job Sheldon, Daniel Eaton, John Pearson.

N.B. I know Mr. Garton (a lead smelter) came from Lumsdale, Matlock. The Sheldons came from Bonsall, as I think Boden and Pearson did. Eaton came from Snitterton.

Barmaster's Book No. 47 (1837 - 1871)

October 8th 1848. Then put John Garton in Possession of an old Mine called NOON NICK ranging nearly north & South the Upper Title by nicking a Nether Title by Publication according to Mineral Law and Custom and Consolidated them into one title with all the veins belonging as spesefid (?specified) in the Former Gifts, and fixing his Founder at the Forefield shaft 22 Mears (N.B. in the Low Peak which includes Matlock Liberty 29 yards, 32 yards in the High Peak, private liberties ranging from 28,29 or 30 yards) of Ground Southwardly through the wood up to Nailors Lane (N.B. This is a continuation of Salters Lane and is part of the old salt route) & 25 Mears of Ground Northwardly or to an old tree in Mr. Sibrey's Large Pasture to be the same more or less. In the presence of Job Boden & Mordicai Cardin two of the Grand Jury or Twenty Four Men.
By me MIchael Cardin Deputy Barmaster.

N.B. John Allsop the former owner of the Title had it on a fourteen year lease from John Garton (lead smelter). John Allsop was also a lead smelter from Bonsall, he had his smelt down in the Via Gellia, he went bankrupt in 1848, so presumably John Garton was reclaiming back the title.

October 23rd 1854. I was called upon by John Garton along with Mordecai Cardin & John Stephenson two of the Jury men to set him out a Road to his mine called JUG HOLE according to mineral law. We set him out the said road from the Salters Lane (n.b. a very old west/east salt route from Cheshire) through the uppermost piece of land belonging to Bonsall School in the occupation of Edwin Knowles to a shaft in his Plantation.
Michael Cardin Deputy Barmaster.

Trust that's enough lead mining history of the area for a bit!

Iclok - The details of the article I previously mentioned written by Frank Brindley was "The Jug Holes Ghost and the Oxclose Sough Disaster", it appeared in the Quarry Managers Journal, October, 1945. Perhaps some one on the Forum can come up with a copy of it, or alternatively Derbyshire County Library Service will obtain a copy of the article for you. My copy is at the DRO at Matlock.

hi sougher, it seems you are a walking encyclopedia of mining history, much like Nellie, good of you to share this info with everyone, very kind, cheers :thumbsup:

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Hello folks,
An afterthought to my other belated posting about Jug Hole.
Some questions were asked if Jug Hole might have been different earlier in the 20th century. In the Climbers’ Club Journal Vol IX No. 36 for June 1907 pp146-150 there is a detailed description of an exploration by the Pennine Club.
A pdf file of this can be seen online at [url]climbers-club.co.uk/journal/original/1907%20Vol.9%20No.36_nc.pdf[/url]
The account sounds a bit exaggerated but I do not have any personal knowledge of the system. Perhaps someone who knows it well could work out if anything was seen in 1907 that is no longer accessible.
Local legend told of a deep lakelet followed by a beautiful cavern. The entrance was 50 feet wide and 100 feet long and high. On the E side, tight passage rose into a narrow chasm that was blind. There were 2 shafts at the end of the entrance cavern but a tight bodyhole lead to another shaft with a strong airflow out. This dropped into a stream passage. A hidden opening behind huge boulders lead to the junction of two streams in toadstone clay.
Following the stream down lead into a circular chamber 100 ft wide and 180 feet high, 100s of straw stals on the roof and 150 ft high cascade of flowstone, probably the largest in Britain.
Beyond this were good stal formations and then exploration ended at a syphon. The system was 650 feet long ranging WNW.

Hi Sougher, Jim Riewerts said pretty much the same to me about the barmasters maps and I've found from my own experience of comparing them to what's actually there that they're indicative rather than definitive!

I know all too well they joys of trying to work out what's where from old references, and that's just in the ground between the Lathkill and the Wye! There are two possible sites for the actual Chapeldale mine (and so far Jim and I haven't been able to prove beyond doubt either is "the one") plus references to other sites as being Chapeldale which most definitely weren't, but had been part of the Chapeldale consolidated title at one point, the Crimbo engine shaft being the prime example! I've also been trying to unpick the Fieldgrove consolidated title to work out which vein is which (Mining History article in preparation!) and put a name to a mine on the upper end of Mycross vein at Red House farm - did Op Mole ever look at this to your knowledge?

I need more free time to spend in archives, but a full-time job and seven ponies to look after does seriously limit my activities.....

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Historytrog - I cannot connect to the link that you have given for the pdf file from the Climbing Club's archives about Derbyshire Pennine Club's exploration of Jugholes (1907). I would like to read it please. Derbyshire Pennine Club had J.R. Puttrell and E.A. Baker as members, very keen and well known cavers of their time, so I'm not suprised about them exploring Jugholes. Sounds by the description of the stream passage in toadstone (from memory, a beautiful green from olivine), also the high cascade of flowstone, that it was the Upper Series that they were describing. My club, Op. Mole called the cascade the "beehive slope" and I have referred to this in an earlier posting about my friend exploring in the 1940's and finding it white and sparkling (sugar spar). There has always been the legend of the lake in Jugholes, also the ghost of the "barking dog". Perhaps cavers who have caved there in more recent times can tie in the large cavern with two shafts. Derbyshire Pennine Club did a lot of caving as well as climbing and I referred to an article written by W. M. Sissons called "Hill Carr Sough" that appeared in their Journal in 1935 (a copy of this is lodged with my records at the DRO), when I was writing my article on Hillcarr Sough, which was printed in PDMHS Journal Vol. 2, Part 2, October, 1963 - "A Recent Exploration of Hillcarr Sough" pp100-104.

AR - I'll sent you a PM over the weekend about the questions you've raised which really should be replied to off the forum. The only place I was heavily involved with in recent years in your area was the Greensward Mine (you'll have the PDMHS Journal where it was printed), the article of which I wrote with an old caving friend from Op. Mole. Actually it was a combination of all of us, a fellow Mole turned up with some paperwork and asked me to write an article, all I did was collect as many notes and writings from everyone who'd explored the area, both below and on the surface. With Roy my co-author I also walked the surface and went to the Matlock DRO and Local Studies Library researching a lot of information from there, then of course my old friend from Eyam supplied me with copies of all Nellie's relevant notes on the mine, I just gathered it together and typed up an article (the chronological context of which incidently got completely destroyed and altered in the editing, I vowed and declared after the mess it was altered into that I would never submit another article to PDMHS again, and haven't although I've been a member of PDMHS for over forty five years). I too, like you, wish I'd had more time for research having had to fit in a job, rear a family, all singlehanded. Now I'm miles away from the Record Offices and getting too long in the tooth. I miss Matlock DRO also Sheffield archives and the Barker papers, there are still things there I wanted to look at and never did.

Try this amended link for the article: http://www.climbers-club.co.uk/journal/original/1907 Vol.9 No.36_nc.pdf 

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some pics of the streamway series here
http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Jug-Holes-Fluorite-Mine-User-Album/ 

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I've added some of a trip through the lower series in 2006. Am I right in thinking it's the way out at the top of the through trip that's now unstable? A shame if the through trip is not possible anymore 😞

Actually a couple of those pictures may have been taken by Jon, not sure now.

there is a note at the top of that climb saying it has loose boulders but there was a post on ukc saying the boulders seemed well wedged if loose and still open 😉 :confused:

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Correction to my posting of 30/04/2009 on this topic on the forum.

I must apologise for the incorrect information that I sent to the forum in my posting as above. I said that I thought Derbyshire Stone had possibly enlarged the top cave entrance during their 1940's opencast workings for fluorspar - we were led to believe this by tales told us by local people. However, after reading the account of the exploration of Jugholes by The Derbyshire Pennine Club (details already given on the forum by "Historytrog" and the correct "link" given by AR- thank you) it would appear that the cave entrance was very large when they first explored it around or before 1907, as they described it as being "50 feet wide, 100 feet long and 100 feet high". I must look out my copy of Nuttal's 1767 map which shews a cave entrance on the southern end of the Noon Nick vein, which is clearly marked Jugholes cave. Therefore, I have no idea of when the cave entrance first looked like it does now.