Vanoord
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16 years ago
Not entirely mine-related but this may be of interest, reported on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7985254.stm 

Quote:

A teenager was killed and another seriously hurt when a cave roof partially collapsed in Shropshire.
Rocks and rubble fell on a group of teenagers camping at the Hermitage Caves near Bridgnorth overnight, West Mercia Police said.

A boy, believed to be aged 16, died in the collapse in the early hours. An 18-year-old girl from Bridgnorth suffered back, neck and rib injuries. Her condition is potentially serious but not considered life threatening.

It is believed the teenagers had lit a fire in the sandstone caves, off Lodge Lane to the east of Bridgnorth town.

A West Mercia Police spokesman said: "At this stage we are trying to establish exactly what happened but it seems that a quantity of rocks and rubble fell on those inside when part of the cave collapsed. "It appears to be a tragic accident."



The caves appear to be within the Shropshire sandstone, which is not the strongest of materials - indeed, a couple of photographs show "Keep Out" signs.

Some references I've found describe the caves as 'rock cut' - in which case I'd assume they're not natural?
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ICLOK
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16 years ago
If its the ones I'm thinking off they are carved out and the stone just as friable as the worst of the wet Notts stuff... I had a look when I was up at the SVR one day. I think it could be those on the road to Wolverhampton... I think... there was no access restrictions about 2 years ago when I was there.

If the sandstone is the really wet stuff and if they had a good fire it might have done enough to loosen some roof, some of the Notts sandstone like at Wollaton is the same...

Tragic as we have all messed around in what we thought were just ordinary safe open caves...



Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
JR
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16 years ago
Just watched the report on the local Midlands Today lunchtime news. The caves are excavated, in fact the piece to camera was in front of a cave (not the fatal one) that had clear indents over the entrance to take wooden beams for a roof.
The sandstone in that area is the soft layered sandstone, as ICLOK noted similar to Nottingham and the stuff in the Wye valley at Ross on Wye.

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/small/16538883.jpg 



Edit The 18 year old girl has fairly severe spine and rib damage and is being treated in Telford. It is believed that she will make a good recovery.
sleep is a caffeine deficiency.
jagman
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16 years ago
"ICLOK" wrote:


Tragic as we have all messed around in what we thought were just ordinary safe open caves...





Not me, dangerous things them caves.
I'll stick to mines thankyou!
ditzy
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16 years ago
"jagman" wrote:

"ICLOK" wrote:


Tragic as we have all messed around in what we thought were just ordinary safe open caves...





Not me, dangerous things them caves.
I'll stick to mines thankyou!



Look more like quaries on the news - dug outs for homes in a quarry or cliff face not caves at all
man made much more temperoary than natral
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Moorebooks
16 years ago

They are rock shelters alongside the river severn, could have been used by hermits but a lot would have been poor housing as one or two still have a type of house frontage.

They are quite common in the area , the sandstone is easy to work I noticed a house for sale http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/02/11/luxury-living-in-a-curious-cave/  in Bridgnorth which is a bit more of a luxery palace a few metres above where the collapse took place.

The National Trust manage a couple of Rock Houses at Kinver only short from here and these will lived in until quite recently.

In the sense they were excavated and man made they are mined out

ICLOCK of course you might not have been into the Sand Mines in Nottingham and these are well worth a visit.

Mike
ICLOK
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16 years ago
Done em to high heavens in Notts when first re-opened.... fabulous ...particularly some of the less known ones. There are even caves under the Salutation pub...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
AR
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16 years ago
By the reports this morning on West Midlands local news, it sounds like they lit quite a substantial bonfire (7 foot flames apparently), and effectively fireset-mined the roof down on top of themselves.
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skippy
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16 years ago
A lot of the ones by the river were actually foundries to start with - my neighbours have a huge complex of them just downriver from me - with a long tunnel that leads water from Mor Brook into the back of the caves - the river bank is a mass of slag. In Bridgnorth they later became dwellings. I've worked on houses in Bridgnorth - my cousin has one where there is an enormous cave in the back yard - no garden, just a rock face with a cave going in. We enlarged it quite a bit and she now holds parties in it. Trevithick had a foundry on the riverside here too. The one the kids were in is an old hermits cave on the Wolverhampton road - been in it and its safe as houses - AR must be right - don't go firesetting..

Pete
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Cat_Bones
16 years ago
"skippy" wrote:

A lot of the ones by the river were actually foundries to start with - my neighbours have a huge complex of them just downriver from me - with a long tunnel that leads water from Mor Brook into the back of the caves - the river bank is a mass of slag. In Bridgnorth they later became dwellings. I've worked on houses in Bridgnorth - my cousin has one where there is an enormous cave in the back yard - no garden, just a rock face with a cave going in. We enlarged it quite a bit and she now holds parties in it. Trevithick had a foundry on the riverside here too. The one the kids were in is an old hermits cave on the Wolverhampton road - been in it and its safe as houses - AR must be right - don't go firesetting..

Pete



Gotta disagree about it being "safe as houses" mate... last time I was there, I was bothered by a couple of places there which didn't look very stable at all and some rock had already come down. But yeah, setting fires under any of it isn't the best idea although to be fair to the kids, people have been going there and setting camp-fires for years.


derrickman
16 years ago
lots of old mine workings have some very rickety bits. I went to Marden in Surrey recently, disused firestone workings, and there are long sections with the roof separating along the bedding planes.

sandstone is funny stuff, I worked on a tunnel job at Bexhill for a while in the 80s and the bround there was a weak sandstone which was very difficult to dig, but collapsed completely once excavated
''the stopes soared beyond the range of our caplamps' - David Bick...... How times change .... oh, I don't know, I've still got a lamp like that.
Cat_Bones
16 years ago
There's so much stuff dug into the sandstone around Bridgnorth... there's a brilliant folly called Caynton Temple dug into the sandstone a few miles from Bridgnorth (near Albrighton)... you have to drop down a little hole and find yourself in a man-made cave carved in a faux-gothic fashion with lots of pillars and arches. Being completely underground, the only damage it's really sustained is from kids. I'm hoping that this accident in Bridgnorth doesn't encourage the landowners of this feature to prevent access...
ICLOK
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16 years ago
Oh noooo.... thats already happening... apparently Dale Abbey Sandstone Hermitage has been risk assessed since as have parts of Notts...
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
Cat_Bones
16 years ago
Bit predictable really... shame that we live in this litigious society which encourages landowners to seal-off or destroy places like this.
sougher
16 years ago
ICLOK - I assume that Anchor Church, Ingleby, South Derbyshire will also have been risk assessed, if Dale Abbey Sandstone Hermitage and other parts in Nottinghamshire have! Not been there for many, many years, it was a nice cycle ride from Derby in the days of petrol rationing.
minerat
16 years ago
I remember we had a "camp" in an old "cave hole" up near balleye quarry when we were kids, lit a fire in, and decided to go to get some food to cook on it, when we came back a lump of rock filled the "cave", it had come down cause we had lit a fire under it, so its not only sandstone which will come down limestone too will drop, we were lucky. never did it again.
be afraid.....very afraid !!!!
Cat_Bones
16 years ago
A mate of mine said someone he knew was killed in a mine in the lake district (around Chapel Stile)... exactly the same thing; they'd lit a fire inside.
ICLOK
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16 years ago
Sougher.... How strange is this... planning a walk there today... hones 😮 t... Mrs ICLOKs dad and I were only on re this subject last night as I asked him if in his time in police in peak and around Derbys if he had ever seen this sort of accident before... which he has but only smaller chunks no fatalities. Anchor sounds fascinating so doing that, the nearby medievil causeway and a bit more of Ticknall.

Will report accordingly! 😉
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
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