scrookes@yahoo.com
7 years ago
Hi

I am hoping some one might be able to assist me. My great Uncle Herbert Crookeso owned this colliery with a Peter Seddon I think is the 1870s. ..1880s....

Does anyone one have an address for the colliery or photos or anything.

Imy doing a family scrap book for my nephew and I am missing info on HerbeRyanair and the coalmine.

Many thanks

Sarah
staffordshirechina
7 years ago
Hi Sarah,

I think you will find it is Cutthorpe, not Catthorpe. These things vary over time!

If you Google fir vale colliery, cutthorpe chesterfield, you will find several leads. Some with the name Crooks.

Good Luck

Les
scrookes@yahoo.com
7 years ago
Hi Les

Thank you for your prompt response. I do apoloise for my spelling errors.

I have just tried your search suggestions on Google and didn't get anything back

Did you use the Google?

I was very excited that I might find one article

Sarah
scrookes@yahoo.com
7 years ago
Hi Leslie

Also do you think the colliery is also referred to as Cutthorpe colliery

Thanks

Sarah
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staffordshirechina
7 years ago
I just put this into Google and got several responses.

fir vale colliery, cutthorpe chesterfield

The Google page is here:-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fir+vale+colliery%2C+cutthorpe+chesterfield&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-GBGB719GB719&oq=fir+vale+colliery%2C+cutthorpe+chesterfield&aqs=chrome..69i57.1487j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 

I used to live in Chesterfield hence my knowledge and interest.

Les
scrookes@yahoo.com
7 years ago
Hi Les

Thank you for this. Herbert Crookes was murdered in 1886 and hence I suspect why it says John crooks who was his father. I assuming sorting things out after his death

I'm really looking for a map /sketch with fir vale on.

Not located this and any help would be great.

Cutthorpe is a different colliery right?

Thank you

Sarah
Tin Miner
7 years ago
Hello Sarah - As written in the Newspaper report of that time...

The Murder near Chesterfield - The Police engaged in investigating the murder of Herbert Crookes, whose body was found in a piece of water near the Chesterfield Canal, near Wheeldon Mill, last Thursday, have not yet been able to effect any arrests. The scene of the murder was visited by some hundreds of persons on Sunday, and the cemetery at Old Brampton, where the interment took place in the after, was also thronged with people from Chesterfield, Brampton, and the adjacent villages. The Police dragged the river on Sunday, but nothing beyond a shilling piece was found. On making a further search near the place where the struggle occurred, the Police discovered a number of coins, which it is supposed deceased threw away. Crookes seemed to have had an idea that an attempt to rob him might some time be made, and in conversation on one occasion with some friends who were telling him of the rashness of carrying so much money about with him, he said that if he were attacked at any time he should at once throw his money away. The fact of the coins being found on the bank near, seems to show that the motive of the murder was robbery, and that Crookes was not attacked by anyone who had any spite against him. The coins found consisted of a shilling piece, a florin, and a penny.
Nottingham Evening Post - Tuesday 30 March 1886


Anything else I can look up for in the old newspapers please let me know... kind regards Tin Miner
scrookes@yahoo.com
7 years ago
Hello

Thank you for all your help. I have investigated the murder of Herbert.

I'm really looking to a map with the mine on of fir vale. If you can find that it would be fab,

It's all very interesting but so little on the mine

Sarah
Tin Miner
7 years ago
Hello Sarah - The following is from the National Archives

BT 31/24799/156824

Description:

Company No: 156824; Cutthorpe Colliery Company Ltd. Incorporated in 1919. Dissolved between 1919 and 1932

I was wondering if Fir Vale Colliery was the fore-runner of Cutthorpe Colliery... just a assumption on my part... will keep plugging away and see if I can find something useful for you.

Under "Colliery Closures 1886" is the following -

Fir Vale (John Crooks) Cutthorpe, Mickley / Ashgate, c 4” (0.10m), d 9” (0.25m), soft coal 1’ 6” (0.45m), batt 5” (0.13m), soft coal 8” (0.20m), 2 shafts 15 yards (14m deep)
Tin Miner
7 years ago
Herbert Crookes was born in Chesterfield, and lived a great part of his life in Gluman Gate, Chesterfield. Some years ago, he kept a butcher's shop in Newbould road, Chesterfield, which is now carried on by his sister, Mrs. Beastall, and her husband. After that he kept the Cutthorpe Hotel, at Cutthorpe, for some years. He gave up the hotel about four years ago, when he removed to the house and small farm occupied by him up to the time of his death. The coalpit owned by the deceased is called the "Fir Vale" Colliery, and is situated at Cutthorpe. It is stated that it will be carried on by the deceased's father, Mr. Thomas Crookes, of Birdholm Farm, Wingerworth, who is one of the Poor-law Guardians for that parish.

Mr. Woodward, of Clowne, had lately gone into partnership with Herbert Crookes in the butchering business, and, as stated yesterday, the deceased had taken and furnished a house at Clowne, into which it was his intention to move his wife and family on Thursday. It is probable that Mrs. Crookes will not go to live at Clowne, as was intended before her husband's death, but will remain at Cutthorpe, where many of her relatives and friends reside. The deceased leaves five children, three bos, and two girls, not six as stated in our yesterday's issue. - NOTE - Herbert Crookes buried in the Old Brimington Churhyard.
Sheffield Independent - Saturday 27th March 1886.
exspelio
7 years ago
The whole area was heavily opencasted in the '50s, it seems likely such a shallow mine would have been lost to this.
But there might be some records hidden somewhere within the NCB archives??.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
staffordshirechina
7 years ago
Quote:


Fir Vale (John Crooks) Cutthorpe, Mickley / Ashgate, c 4” (0.10m), d 9” (0.25m), soft coal 1’ 6” (0.45m), batt 5” (0.13m), soft coal 8” (0.20m), 2 shafts 15 yards (14m deep)



With such miserable, thin seams and a very shallow shaft (14metres!) it was hardly a colliery at all. More like a well with bit of coal in.
Sadly, I don't know offhand exactly where either Fir Vale or Cutthorpe collieries were but they should be on the earlier OS maps?

Les
staffordshirechina
7 years ago
A quick look on Old Maps doesn't show anything useful.
The actual maps required aren't there. However there is a colliery shown at Four Lane Ends which could be Cutthorpe Colliery, it is within naming distance. There doesn't seem to be any others actually in Cutthorpe to claim the title.

Looking at the details of Fir Vale, it could well be so small as to have escaped the map makers eyes.
Given that Mr Crookes had been a butcher, then a hotel keeper, one wonders if the 'colliery' wasn't a retirement or hobby project?

Les
Tin Miner
7 years ago
Hello Les - The OS 6-inch map actually states the coal pit/s at Four Lanes as "Cutthorpe Colliery"

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101600451# 

Hope all's well with you and family... kind regards Tin Miner (Chris)
staffordshirechina
7 years ago
Well done Chris, I didn't find that map!

The geology in that area is rising to the west so the seams will be nearing outcrop at Four lane Ends and getting shallower towards Cutthorpe itself. If you have a depth for the seams at Cutthorpe Colliery, then we could guestimate how far west Fir Vale might be?

Les

We are all still going!
alexECP
7 years ago
Fir Vale Colliery is quoted as being in Brampton Parish in Abandonment Plans-abandoned before 1886 Map 18SW, area worked F1.This whole area Cutthorpe, Brampton, Newbold & Barlow is riddled with shallow coal/ironstone mines, shows signs of Bell pitting & shallow & deeper shafts.
Unable to find any trace of Fir Vale Colliery or farm location
scrookes@yahoo.com
7 years ago
Hello

You guys are fab. Thank you very much

I have given the scrap book to my nephew on his 21st but he knows I have left a space for a map/info on the Fir Vale Colliery.
He is finds it amazing that I have found all this info on his great great uncle herbert from over 130 years ago. All due to a murder, Imagine if they have found the culprits, there would have been even more on the trial and potential hanging....as that was the penalty in those days

From what I gather it is not Cutthorpe Colliery. I have managed to open the map provided and printed the section off. The original ref on the site here by some guy shows the mine or whatever it is to be cutthorpe hotel, in some forest! Who knows

You have made me chuckle when you said was it a hobby, well I have no doubts that if great uncle herbert could find a way to make money then he would.

Also I know in a booklet published by Judith Stubbs on Cutthorpe Herbert if mentioned ref selling coal and there is a picture too. At the time I didnt know of the significance and also they are held in the British Library in London.

The picture could also be of great uncle herbert in the mine with his make.

Unless any of you have a copy of these booklets, she wrote 3, then when I next go to London I will order the books and take a photo and post of the relevant page and post on here too for you guys. Might be a few weeks. Ideally I want to buy the books but you cant order them anymore

I am also looking for an old picture of the Cutthorpe hotel but as yet I have failed and I have contacted the current landlords too,

Anyway ,I also have no clue what you are all talking about it but its seems very interesting.

Thank you once again

Sarah
Tin Miner
7 years ago
Another interesting amount of info of the area -

http://shropshirehistory.com/chesterfield/ch_barlow.htm 

Good luck... regards Tin Miner

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