Smallcleugh Christmassy Quiz · AditNow Community

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Jim MacPherson
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Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

A challenge to name names

Photograph:

🔗108705[linkphoto]108705[/linkphoto][/link]

This was taken in the Ballroom probably late 1970's, I've appended some info from legendrider and John Lawson on the pic, and both are confident that the wall has been "cleaned" at some point in time.

Glittering prizes available (in the form of valuable kudos and a (possible) mention on the pic description) for further identification of the names on the wall of fame(?).

Jim

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legendrider
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8 years ago

We'd have left this lot well alone if it were still there, many are names who have themselves become part of the History of mining in the N Pennines, Messrs Fairbairn and Greenbank to name but two.

I therefore pose another question;

In carbide soot, in the lower middle of the photo is writ:

P.S.W.
H
GWO
1975

we've recently come across GWO in another context, dated 1961 and would love to hear if anyone can shed light?

regards

MARK

festina lente[i]

John Lawson
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8 years ago

Further to the info I gave Jim, looking at it tonight, I notice a Richard Haszard.
He was quite a character, who was, I believe a Shropshire land owner, who loved, like we all do mine exploration.
He was active in the 60's and early 70's.
I lost track of him when I left the Peak District area, to come to Scotland in I think, 1972.
He was another of the joint Shropshire/ Peak District Mine Fraternity, which existed then.
Just maybe it is still around?

risy76115
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

8 years ago

"Jim MacPherson" wrote:
A challenge to name names

Photograph:

🔗108705[linkphoto]108705[/linkphoto][/link]

This was taken in the Ballroom probably late 1970's, I've appended some info from legendrider and John Lawson on the pic, and both are confident that the wall has been "cleaned" at some point in time.

Glittering prizes available (in the form of valuable kudos and a (possible) mention on the pic description) for further identification of the names on the wall of fame(?).

Jim

yes all names are gone 😞

Rise from the ashes

ebgb
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

8 years ago

"risy76115" wrote:

yes all names are gone :(

yup, shame that the graffitti gets removed, therse places need to be elft to tell their story and that includes the grafitti IMHO

there's 2 or 3 names on there that are still around that I can see (apart from Ray! obv)

http://bf494.co.uk

ebgb
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

8 years ago

could also be a bonus prize for anyone that can name another location where there are at least 4 of those names still to be seen along with a wall of others! :angel:

http://bf494.co.uk

PeteJ
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Newbie

8 years ago

J W Robson was the foreman/manager at Roughside Mine in 1964/5. J Moon is also visible - of NCMRS from West Cumbria and Haig - John mapped and explored most of the Lake District Mines before 1965. He was also an avid collector of old dynamite.

When the flat was first entered in 1964, there was some graffiti from the 1930s - Peter Swindle and others.

Chalked graffiti gradually fades away in the damp conditions. Then the paint sprayers started. Then some crude, rude stuff appeared. A group of interested persons decided that the whole place should be cleaned up with wire brushes etc.

Noticeable that some visitors require painted arrows half a metre across in order to find their way through the mine.

Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532

Jim MacPherson
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

Thanks for your detail Pete, as there are two other Robsons apart from your JW I'll check with John Lawson as to which one he referred to, so that seems to be 5 or 6 so far, not counting legendrider's sooty initials.

Out of interest which Roughside?, your NCMRS paper (1969) gives a location near Flinty Quarry, Mike Luff has another towards Wellhope as per the site and pics I put up.

There seem to be at least another 12 that are fairly distinct including "I Johnson" who may have been 12 in 1977, so only early 50's now, a mere stripling:)

As for ebgb's bonus prize, details are awaited.

As promised I'll append info to the pic with suitable blame attached.

Jim

staffordshirechina
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Newbie

8 years ago

Dick Haszard was a PDMHS member for many years but I seem to remember he died not that long ago. There was an obituary in the newsletter, I think.
He was at one time a colliery ventilation officer in the South Staffs coalfield.

Jim MacPherson
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Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

#10

Thanks Les,

This is the last information I've seen on Dick Haszard, it's a bit on page 3 when he was approaching 80.

http://www.shropshirecmc.org.uk/below/2008_3w.pdf

Jim

Edd
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Newbie

8 years ago

#11

"PeteJ" wrote:
J W Robson was the foreman/manager at Roughside Mine in 1964/5. J Moon is also visible - of NCMRS from West Cumbria and Haig - John mapped and explored most of the Lake District Mines before 1965. He was also an avid collector of old dynamite.

When the flat was first entered in 1964, there was some graffiti from the 1930s - Peter Swindle and others.

Chalked graffiti gradually fades away in the damp conditions. Then the paint sprayers started. Then some crude, rude stuff appeared. A group of interested persons decided that the whole place should be cleaned up with wire brushes etc.

Noticeable that some visitors require painted arrows half a metre across in order to find their way through the mine.

But if no graffiti is left then what is there for the next generation to photograph and enjoy. I understand the rude words as that is being childish but to remove names from the 60s and 70s is just getting a bit pathetic. What about all the miners graffiti should that be removed as well? :thumbdown:

'I started reading it with full intention to read it all and then got bored and went and got beer instead!'

Jim MacPherson
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Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

#12

"Edd" wrote:

But if no graffiti is left then what is there for the next generation to photograph and enjoy. I understand the rude words as that is being childish but to remove names from the 60s and 70s is just getting a bit pathetic. What about all the miners graffiti should that be removed as well? :thumbdown:

It remains a deep (philosophical?) question about modern graffiti but as PeteJ points out much of the chalked names etc. would have gone in the intervening 35ish years. On a more mundane level at least the photo gives an ephemeral glimpse - and still leaves the opportunity for some folk to bung in their two penn'orth with the remaining names plus a couple more on Boy Engineer's contemporaneous (nearly) pic by Harry Parker.

royfellows
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Newbie

8 years ago

#13

Its an interesting point.
A discreet "RF" from 1964 was removed from a slate mine in north Wales, when I am dead and gone they will be sorry!
:lol:

However, a lot of modern graffiti is just plain vandalism, Next year will see a final blitz on the arrows in Smallcleugh, I have my secret formula paint remover.
The paint daubings are just plain rubbish, if I catch anyone with a spray can in any of my mines whey will end up wearing it.

My avatar is a poor likeness.

Jim MacPherson
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Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

#14

"royfellows" wrote:
Its an interesting point.
A discreet "RF" from 1964 was removed from a slate mine in north Wales, when I am dead and gone they will be sorry!
:lol:

How cruel Mr Fellows, immortality snatched away just like that, as you say "they" will regret it, but there again you seem to be putting up, many, much more tangible reminders of your activities:angel:

Edd
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8 years ago

#15

"Jim MacPherson" wrote:

"Edd" wrote:

But if no graffiti is left then what is there for the next generation to photograph and enjoy. I understand the rude words as that is being childish but to remove names from the 60s and 70s is just getting a bit pathetic. What about all the miners graffiti should that be removed as well? :thumbdown:

It remains a deep (philosophical?) question about modern graffiti but as PeteJ points out much of the chalked names etc. would have gone in the intervening 35ish years. On a more mundane level at least the photo gives an ephemeral glimpse - and still leaves the opportunity for some folk to bung in their two penn'orth with the remaining names plus a couple more on Boy Engineer's contemporaneous (nearly) pic by Harry Parker.

I agree however where does the line get drawn. Some one took it upon themselves to redraw a piece of miners graffiti by gypsum corner as well. ::)

'I started reading it with full intention to read it all and then got bored and went and got beer instead!'

Jim MacPherson
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Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

#16

Thanks to Mike Gill of NMRS there are another couple of possible names to add, below John Moon on the LHS is "Caleb" who could be Caleb Wade and to the right of that are the initials "RG" which could be Bob Guthrie.

It's a slow process but it keeps moving, lucky I didn't specify which Christmas:)

John Lawson
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Newbie

8 years ago

#17

Jim you almost certainly correct, with Caleb.
He was my guide on my first Smallcleugh trip!
Which, seems just like yesterday!

Jim MacPherson
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Newbie Topic Starter

8 years ago

#18

"John Lawson" wrote:
Jim you almost certainly correct, with Caleb.
He was my guide on my first Smallcleugh trip!
Which, seems just like yesterday!

I think I might have met him twice, once in Mongo Gill in a fine trip including East Hade which Dad took great exception to, so we had clay ball flicking fights whilst waiting for the grunting, groaning and swearing to stop and once over at Coniston when I first met Harry Parker (who told rude jokes :angel: ) Caleb was also the author of an erudite article on dowsing

http://www.nmrs.org.uk/assets/pdf/T/T-V1N1-12-22-divining.pdf

and I'm presuming Caleb's Cringes Passage is named after him (top left on survey.

http://cavemaps.org/surveys/cpc/full/CPC%20J2-4%20Stump%20Cross%20Caverns%20-%201958.png

Jim