How do you attach your various bits and bobs to your main harness maillon?

Since I were a lad I have always put cows tails on the left, Croll in the middle and security link to my hand jammer on the right (I am right handed). I have recently been taken to task by a CIC who informs me that I should have my security link to the left of my Croll, the Croll sitting on the right.

Is there a definitive right or a wrong way or is it down to personal choice?

Given that the guy is a professional caving instructor I am not going to dismiss his opinion out of hand, however as my way has worked well for me for twenty odd years I am loathe to change unless there is a really good reason.

Mine is the same as yours. And like yours, it works just fine and nothing ever tangles. If it ain't broke... :thumbup:

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I was taught by The Derbyshire Caving Association training officer and he said to me the alignment of you're kit depends on what is best for yourself, a left handed person will not want the same set up as a right handed person.

Personally I think it is personal preference.

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it could just be another caver willy waving..:guns:

My setup sounds like yours Rick.

Right handed surely means you want your security link on the right like we have; if it was on the left it would be more likely to tangle with the rope through the croll surely?

Can't remember who it was, but somebody told me A.B.C... starting right to left... Ascender, Brake, Croll, and cowstails on the far left.

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Have my Croll on the right with the hand-jammer set-up immediately to its left.

It shouldn't interfere with the rope at all and leaves access to the Croll uncluttered which is a boon at rebelays and what have you...

Mine is the same as yours Tamarmole .....

;)

Ian

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Tell you what I have done, bought one of the aluminium thingies to replace the centre Maillon as I have always had these rust.

Cost about £20 from Starless and worth it.

Works a treat.

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I would say the best thing is to stick to what you do, unless there really is an over-riding risk. Once you start to change a routine, you add a risk (at least for a while) since you are breaking a familiar routine. Can you ask this instructor why he thinks it is a risk? At least then you can make your own judgement.

More importantly, make sure you don't have any loose ends of rope.
I had the Croll jam open on the loose end from my foot loop a couple of weeks ago - not fun.

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Mine is the same as yours Tamarmole .....

;)

Ian

Don't let our training officer see that, I have mine set up that way too and he told me to put the jammer on the left

Yup! I have a similar set up to you Rick. If it's practical and you are familiar with your kit, to the point where you can rig it in pitch darkness, then you are doing it right. Anyone who tries to set this sort of thing in stone is probably willy waving.
Met plenty of good CIC's and occasionally the 'odd' ones who likes to push thier 'expertise' as gospel.
As for attatchment, I use a stainless steel 'D' Maillon on the harness and stainless oval Maillons everywhere else. In acid environments they are tops.

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Hi Tamarmole
It is likely that the advice you'll receive from any CIC would be a recommendation based on best practice. There are always variants in SRT set up and I'm no exception. The best advice I try to give is information so people can make an informed choice. In this case the footloop cord positioned on the right (looking down on it) of the Chest Ascender is neat for right handers, storage on harness RHS does not hold a safety cord across other components and it keeps the descender a bit more uncluttered on the D. A downside that can lead to recommendation to not do it this way is that in some SRT situations the safety cord may come tight and prevent you from opening the safety catch on the chest ascender. Potentially, the cord could even catch in the cam of the chest ascender or even open it. Very unlikely but a notable reason to move left of Chest Ascender.
As long as your system works and you understand the pros and cons then it's okay.
If you're at Hidden Earth this month come and seek out the ACI (Association of Caving Instructors) stand and I'll happily chat more about it. That goes for anyone else too.
Pete
(A CIC with a similar SRT set up)

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A downside that can lead to recommendation to not do it this way is that in some SRT situations the safety cord may come tight and prevent you from opening the safety catch on the chest ascender.

That is what I was told by our clubs training officer. Surely the solution is to prussik up a little to take the weight off safety line?

Thanks for the input chaps very informative.

As far as I can tell swapping my security link and Croll would prevent a problem which I have not experienced in twenty years of vertical caving/mine exploration.

I think I'll stick to my current rig.

I believe that is what caused my issue at south bedford with my croll popping off.

The angle of the. Fadangle on the croll coupled with the taut sfately line from my hand ascender...

A downside that can lead to recommendation to not do it this way is that in some SRT situations the safety cord may come tight and prevent you from opening the safety catch on the chest ascender.

That is what I was told by our clubs training officer. Surely the solution is to prussik up a little to take the weight off safety line?

That should indeed solve that problem in a lot of cases although perhaps not if performing an up-to-down or down-to-up changeover where the hand jammer is positioned high.
Most of the time I expect it is just a general annoyance of having the safety cord knot in the way (although not always tight) every time you need to pop the chest ascender off, i.e. multi-rebelay SRT.
This is one of those situations where there is a recommended 'optimum' way of doing it but many variants that will also prove just as appropriate for individuals. For years my safety cord which was safely connected to me was not attached to my D link anywhere. Ponder that if you will!

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high fresh , I just wanted a clear answer on using a left hand jammer , , from your experience can you see any reason not to use a lefty ? my theory is it leaves your right hand free to operate croll when passing bolts ,,,,, thanks alot , col

If you look at a left handed handled ascender and left handed non-handled ascender, they are different animals in terms of their catches. The handle-less one has a catch suited to right hand operation.

Left handed ascender leaves a right handed person's right hand for fiddling. I find the handle-less ascenders much nicer to use.

It's rather like using an old telephone. I use my left ear and hand and then dial with my right handed right hand. Simples, no nonsense gripping the phone with your shoulder or anything like that. Common Sense!

learn something new every day , ,,, as for ascenders , I didn't know a none handled ascender can come lefty or righty ?