Tamarmole
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10 years ago
Those of you who have followed my ramblings on the subject of micro racks may recall that I mashed the aluminium bars on my Kong micro rack on a mucky rope a year or so ago. The pitch itself is around the forty foot mark, the rope was (and indeed still is) fairly heavily contaminated with decomposed granite, lubricated with mud. I managed to cut a three mil groove in the ally bars on a single descent.

A couple of nights ago I revisited the scene of the Kong's demise. The rope was still in situ and as grotty as ever. I descended using my home brewed micro rack with 316 stainless bars. There was absolutely no damage, or even discernable marking to the bars. Proof absolute that stainless bars are the way to go.
royfellows
10 years ago
Be careful Rick, stainless steel is a lousy heat conductor.
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Tamarmole
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10 years ago
"royfellows" wrote:

Be careful Rick, stainless steel is a lousy heat conductor.



A fair point.

That's why I, in common with most American commercial rack manufacturers, used tube not round section bar. I don't make any claims to originality, this is tried and tested technology. After a fair bit of research I merely copied what the yanks consider to be "best practice".

Tube gives twice the surface area of a solid ally bar of similar length which, in practice, compensates for its poorer heat conductivity. It is also worth considering that SS does not generate as much friction as ally so there is less heat to deal with in the first place.

I have been using stainless bars for about 6 - 8 months on all manner of ropes ranging from 9mm to black Marlow and all stations in between on pitches up to about 80 feet without any heat (or wear) issues.

Whilst ally might dissipate heat better than SS the poor wear characteristics of ally are, arguably, a more significant issue.
Mr.C
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10 years ago
Just be aware that wear on an SS tube can produce a "razor blade", with rather predictable results!
Would SS tube shrunk fit on to aluminium round bar be a better option?
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exspelio
10 years ago
"Tamarmole
It is also worth considering that SS does not generate as much friction as ally so there is less heat to deal with in the first place.

[/quote wrote:



This quote struck me as sygnificant, surely rack descenders depend upon friction as a slowing/control mechanism?
Is the SS version noticeable quicker and less controllable over longer pitches?


Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
J25GTi
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10 years ago
"exspelio" wrote:

"Tamarmole
It is also worth considering that SS does not generate as much friction as ally so there is less heat to deal with in the first place.

[/quote wrote:



This quote struck me as sygnificant, surely rack descenders depend upon friction as a slowing/control mechanism?
Is the SS version noticeable quicker and less controllable over longer pitches?



Yes that is correct, but I believe the friction comes from the spacing of the bars, not the material its self. You can use more or less bars as required. and with the added hyper bar that is also used to help with control and locking off etc

I have not noticed rick having any problems like that personally but I'm sure he will be along to confirm
Tamarmole
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10 years ago
I have not found either heat dissipation or lack of friction to be an issue at all with stainless tube bars. To date I have had no control issues with SS bars, yes they are faster than ally but, providing you are aware of this, it is not an issue.

Controlling a descent on a micro rack is quite a subtle process. Unlike a Stop this is a variable friction device, you can control friction either by altering the spacing of the bars (bringing them closer together increases friction, separating them reduces friction) or by running on four bars or five (adding in the hyper bar). Both these can be altered without any problems whilst descending. On a short pitch without much rope below me I may run on five bars with the bars closer together. On a longer pitch I may run on four spread bars, if I feel that I need more friction lower down the pitch I can either push the bars closer together or take the rope around the hyper bar so I am now running on five bars. Speed of descent is also controlled by the amount of rope running through the device (in much the same way as a Stop). I always start a descent on five closely spaced bars for maximum friction until I get the feel of the rope, I will then alter the set up on the rack to suit conditions.

With regard to wear and razor blade edges: Unlike ally bars wear on SS is very slow. I used schedule 40 tube which is thick walled (2.77mm); that will take a lot of wear before nastiness happens. You are simply not going to put (say) a three mil groove into a SS bar on any trip. As yet I have no wear on my bars in spite of a number of trips on mucky rope which would have eaten ally bars. If and when wear starts to develop I will bin the bars well before they get to a critical stage. Like all vertical kit you need to constantly monitor condition and chuck it before it becomes a liability.

SS rack bars are the way to go.
Tamarmole
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10 years ago
I should add that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a yoghurt weaving, leftie, unbeliever.
royfellows
10 years ago
"Tamarmole" wrote:

I should add that anyone who doesn't agree with me is a yoghurt weaving, leftie, unbeliever.



or a left handed lesbian trombone player who should keep to their sustainable green wooden bicycle and stay away from racks
:lol:
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gNick
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10 years ago
I now have some 8mm bar and Sch 40 tube to make my copy.
All I need to do now is excavate the workshop to get to the pillar drill and make a bending jig - only a couple of years work then!

On an earlier post, I don't think that shrink fitting aluminium inside would particularly help with sharp edges when wearing through the tube, ally being softer would wear quicker and you would still get an edge.
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Mr.C
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10 years ago
"gNick" wrote:



On an earlier post, I don't think that shrink fitting aluminium inside would particularly help with sharp edges when wearing through the tube, ally being softer would wear quicker and you would still get an edge.


Not substantially quicker, because the depth of wear would be limited by the hardness of the worn through SS surrounding the ally.
Tis only a suggestion & if the wear of 316s in this application is as negligible as the OP has found, it's probably not necessary anyway.
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Tamarmole
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10 years ago
This does sound like a solution looking for a problem. Shrinking SS onto ally would be a huge amount of faff for very little if any gain.
RJV
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10 years ago
Wouldn't it have been easier to just ladder the pitch?
Mr Mike
10 years ago
"RJV" wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to just ladder the pitch?



In SS or Ali?
Mr Mike www.mineexplorer.org.uk
J25GTi
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10 years ago
"RJV" wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to just ladder the pitch?



Definitely not....

Was a long way in and then the ladder would have to be left in situ
Mr.C
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10 years ago
"Mr Mike" wrote:

"RJV" wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to just ladder the pitch?



In SS or Ali?


Hemp rope and wood rungs, surely ?
We inhabit an island made of coal, surrounded by a sea full of fish. How can we go wrong.......
RJV
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10 years ago
"Mr.C" wrote:

"Mr Mike" wrote:

"RJV" wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to just ladder the pitch?



In SS or Ali?


Hemp rope and wood rungs, surely ?


Bamboo bound with vine aktually! :tongue:
Tony Blair
10 years ago
The first and second bars (ally) get hot enough to sizzle when you spit on them. SS could get exceedingly hot.

I wonder about brass or bronze
Tamarmole
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10 years ago
"Tony Blair" wrote:

The first and second bars (ally) get hot enough to sizzle when you spit on them. SS could get exceedingly hot.

I wonder about brass or bronze



Don't try to reinvent the wheel - the yanks have been using SS bars since the year dot on monster pitches like Golandrinas to boot.

Mr.C
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10 years ago
"RJV" wrote:

"Mr.C" wrote:

"Mr Mike" wrote:

"RJV" wrote:

Wouldn't it have been easier to just ladder the pitch?



In SS or Ali?


Hemp rope and wood rungs, surely ?


Bamboo bound with vine aktually! :tongue:


I'll get my loin cloth!
We inhabit an island made of coal, surrounded by a sea full of fish. How can we go wrong.......

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