That doesn’t look like a hopper collapse... it looks more like stope slope come crashing down.... Do you remember you found a way up in the roof along second sun vein and it went into stope works above the level??

It was John who pointed me to this, credit where its due.
I am wondering if the stope extends inbye past the collapse and its that is its source?
Worth a look.
If its possible to get over the top of the collapse it could be worked from both sides.

You need to get some RSJs in!
Only kidding.

Agreed... That type of collapse is the most dangerous.. Someone starts digging and they start to open a void at the top of the arch and suddenly they get a face full of stope:o
Needs an experienced team of diggers to do this one.
Yeah my dad seems to have wheedled out all sorts of books and crannys off his plans of smallcleugh 🙂 😉

Actually, I went in and did it my own way before I left for home.
Struggled a bit with the RSJs on my own.

🔗115783[linkphoto]115783[/linkphoto][/link]

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I take it you can only accomplish things like that because you do martial arts Roy? :lol:

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At Cwmystwyth I did actually get 4 of the 12 foot spans in on my own. You have to get your body weight beneath them, your centre of gravity is at your belt buckle. True.

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So not as bad as it looked?? ;D
Could it be an extension of that stope in the roof??

Roy I still wonder at how you manage to do these things by yourself!
Well done!
As you mentioned it was a few years ago when I suggested we should look at the stope in the roof inbye of Mitchell’s flat, and before the fall on Cowhill Cross Vein.
At the time my thinking was, based on the abandonment plan, there might be a way above the second sun horse level, from the stope adjacent to the rise to Mitchell’s flat, to the rise which we entered at that time.
As you no doubt will remember it was a largish stope, but unfortunately it did not connect through.
As has been mentioned by Robert and others, it looks as if part of this stope has collapsed into the horse level.
My guess it is worth another look up the stope to see if this is what has happened.
Certainly over the last 20 or so years, this section of Middlecleugh 2nd sun Vein has been on the move, and I think problems here, unfortunately will be ongoing.

I think that John is giving good advice here, so I will describe the 'easy' way entry was gained.

It was Heb and I who did it, and when we had cut out the timbers, one was sticking out. It was an easy matter to use a longish rod to hook the trace of a wire ladder over this one.

I never went up there since though, and its been along time.

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After another look last night, I am still convinced that it is a run hopper that had been backfilled with dross. The reasons are:
1. The arching stone finishes at the fall, a couple of stones have been knocked out at the crown but otherwise intact.
2. You can see timber on the LHS just after the end of the arching.
3. The hopper immediately outbye is timbered right across the level with the timber in a dire state.
4. On knocking the patent depth gauge (a length of rebar) into the fall, it moved freely after about 4 feet indicating that it was right through.

The hole in the floor was investigated and seems to have plenty of space to accommodate the spoil, a bit of gardening will be required but nothing drastic.

We ran out of time so didn't get round the other side to investigate but looking promising so far.

More investigation on Sunday, including going round the other side and carefully using the patent depth gauge above the fall to see how much overburden there is.

A bit of company would be good, particularly in the SRT work round the other side if someone fancies a trip out.

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I still think a look 'upstairs' would be a good idea, what if the fall is the lot and nothing above it?

Years ago I dug out one of the hoppers in Scaleburn when working with John L which was this way.
Having that foreknowledge would make digging straightforward, if that's the way it is.

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I'm going to try and have a look upstairs, if we can get anywhere near it. If the stope you get into from the hole in the roof doesn't connect inbye then we'll have to have a look at the nearer the Cowhill Cross Vein.

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Good luck anyway, I am back home.

From your poke, it doesn't look as big a job as first appeared anyway.

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Well from a trip to the other side of the fall some things are clear, it is a collapsed hopper and the fall is about 2'6" (0.76m in modern units) thick.
Oddly enough it is different on the inbye side with lots of wet shale slurry.
I couldn't get a good idea of how much overburden there is due to the patent depth gauge being too long for upward poking, though since the plan hints that the rise might go all the way to Middlecleugh there could be lots.

No joy at getting a look above, the next hopper inbye is choked. It might be worth having a look up through the trapdoor though...

Back in on Thursday evening to do some tidying in the hole in the floor to take spoil and see if we can get an idea of the amount of overburden.

The next hopper outbye is in a poor condition, timber very squidgy, so that will have to have some propping.

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Update from last night's trip.

Still not able to work out how much overburden due to amount that has come out. Looking like the best option would be to plan to put in supports.

Most of the evening was spent moving spoil in the hole in the floor (which leads to a sub-level) to allow plenty of space for the dig spoil. More to be done.

We are going to need a bit of scaffold - rough estimate is 4 off 6 foot poles and 8 off 8 foot poles (technically 16 off 4 foot). If anyone can help it would be really helpful. Some treated timber would be useful as well - 3 or 4 off 8 foot rough sawn 4x2 and some planking.

When the sherpa session will happen rather depends on when we have enough steel but it would be nice to make a start on the 26th if possible.

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