I've been giving a thought to what Trounson had to say about Cornwall's future mines. A comment on the other thread about the CSM almost becoming extinct prompted the thought "Where is this all going?".

I have eyeballed the Cornwall mineral plan and seen a few documents regarding the potential development from the Wheal Maid decline. People may chuckle about the romantic resurgence of Cornish mining but evidently, there was some serious time and money spent looking around. Money spent looking at mines that were pretty ancient.

I've had chats with a few people from the mining scene who have usually bleak statements regarding things starting up again. Whilst I'm aware that Jane had ore down to the 25 level and the Sperries lode was undeveloped, there were things all over the Gwennap area. You have Crofty starting to do some serious development. I can perhaps believe that Pendeen may be dead, but who knows.

Obviously with the "Brownturn" upon us, it's a surprise that Crofty's funding hasn't dried up, but it will pick up in a few years. Whilst I have a theory that the recession isn't due to sub-prime lending, it's actually due to people having enough crap! We will assume I'm wrong and people will want loads of metals in due course, this will have to pick up in a few years.

So, the Indo/Peruvian easy stuff is drying up and I suppose the stuff has to come from somewhere. It will seemingly increasingly have to come from here. So, looking at the history of Cornish mining with the thousands of "works" gradually getting amalgamated to become efficient/survive against easy foreign metals, the bigger mines became the only players to survive. That is all well and good, but take away the competition and you are left with the scenario that there aren't really ore reserves that favour Jane style "big mining". So, Trounson hinted at the Newquay lead district and said that small operations could be operated around a central mill. I wonder if this may be the future. Certainly, the peripheral mines around Pendeen could be worked in this way.

The fact of the matter is that Copper/Tin will become much more scarce and people, perhaps from oversees will see the development potential and realise it, even if we are too lazy to.

So, where is it likely to go. Regardless of the yoghurt weavers banging on about the environment, wealth has to come from somewhere for starters, either grown, dug or caught..... I'm wondering what shape it will take and what will get done first.

Here are a few of my thoughts.....Despite being heavily influenced to the contrary by a few people who worked in these places. In my opinion, people will try and do huge operations first. So, I figure......

Crofty actually coming to proper fruition.

I wonder about Jane, despite having to pump out the whole of Gwennap's water, the basic infrastructure, site and metals are there. The cons being the water stigma and pumping costs. I gather that Sperries may have a massive lode associated with the parallel elvan. There are most certainly few documents regarding Sperries, the conclusion being that it wasn't that deep.

Maid Decline. I don't think Gwennap Council will take kindly to someone opening the decline and making mess in the Maid Valley.... It would stop bikers though. Maid Decline is on the protected shafts list and despite numpty blocking the secondary egress, there is a fair load of everything down there. I suppose Jane pumping would allow further development along towards Carn Marth. It is assumed there was allsorts down there left. They were also thinking very big indeed. I doubt that it would happen, as deep pumping would be needed to lower the water table around there. It would be a mission to do development from the decline AND pump it at the same time (I imagine).

Geevor/Levant. I gather both are mined out and Geevor as a working site would never happen again, due to popular reasons. I'm sure I read somewhere that drilling happened from Levant towards Botallack and it wasn't that encouraging. Anything else in that area seemed to be very small scale indeed. Not for a while in my book.

Cligga. I gather Cligga was almost mined on several occasions recently. I've heard open cast mentioned, but I couldn't begin to imagine that happening. Having said, the geology is very similar to Hemerdon and perhaps the same company would like to work both.

I suppose that's the first points of attack really before re-looking at St Agnes, Great Work, Killifreth, North Downs, which would probably, apart from the previous peppering of workings would be regarded as new mines really. Cornwall seems to have left a lot of permissions open whilst Devon have shelved a lot of theirs. So, given the importance of the extractive industry for the economy, as well as the drying up of resources, it seems almost certain that the stuff will have to come out at some point.

So, in the next 20 years, let's hear your ideas.....

(Please can we keep the humourous "We'll have to fight our way through the stainless steel sculptures and sundials of mining interpretation parks to get there first" comments to a minimum.)

Fire away chaps/chapesses :thumbup:

Edit:- At some point in the far future, I can see the return of people providing mill services and odd-bods operating small holes.....perhaps in a couple of hundred years.... A barometric rise in prices would most certainly allow the mineral owners to cream some cash.... makes you think about how this could all be taxed.... I wonder if the tax gained could pay for the dross in the old mining areas who are too lazy to work....."Sustainable Development"...

Basically, if we had a sensible policy towards imports and considered that tariffs which favoured production of raw materials and heavy industry "at home" were beneficial, then I guess we'd be in a better state?

That, of course, being a totally different rant ;)

Either way, it's a curious situation where the mineral extraction industry in the UK is rendered inviable because we actively encourage such developments around the globe while actively discouraging such activities within our own shores on grounds of Health & Safety and environmental protection. The EU has a lot to answer for!

---

Basically, if we had a sensible policy towards imports and considered that tariffs which favoured production of raw materials and heavy industry "at home" were beneficial, then I guess we'd be in a better state?

That, of course, being a totally different rant ;)

Either way, it's a curious situation where the mineral extraction industry in the UK is rendered inviable because we actively encourage such developments around the globe while actively discouraging such activities within our own shores on grounds of Health & Safety and environmental protection. The EU has a lot to answer for!

It's not just the EU. I remember some years ago one of our ministers being interviewed on Radio 4 and saying "We have to reduce our coal production levels to allow more capacity for importing coal".
:guns: :guns:

Very interesting posting Stuey.

Just a thought in passing! I've been saying for years to my kids that whereas I'll not see it in my lifetime (I must be one of the oldest contributors to the Forum being a gt. grandma!) when they're old and ancient and I'm recycled stardust, there will come a world shortage of mineral deposits, and subsequent exploration and investigation of old mines in all areas of the UK, not just Cornwall, will take place. More modern and profitable pumping methods will have to be designed though, to extract what minerals remain beneath the water table. An example is fluorspar which is getting scarcer and is presently being opencasted in Derbyshire, one of the very few places in the UK producing it. What happens when the present resources are worked out? Food for thought!

Sadly, the social democratic "third way" is thoroughly proven not to work. Anything with a smidgen of socialism works until it has spent everyone else's money, then it gets into huge debt and fails.

Disregarding our £144x10^6 that we spend daily on the Brussels Gravy train, you can bet your bottom dollar that the best we will do is moan about it. The Krauts have a different take on the whole thing and there is no way they will continue funding the whole sorry, lazy failures that are the PIGS. If you ask me, neither the Euro as a currency or the United States of Europe are sustainable, let alone democratic. It would be nice, but they are a weight around our neck in the good times and likely to drown us in bad times. It isn't sustainable and at some point this "political experiment" will be proven to fail in all respects. Even eutopian ones. It is already failing as it is a parasite on wealth rather than facilitating it......

The things that Eu-rope provides are at worst a handicap and at best, a luxury.

Sorry to break the apolitical nature of this website. You could say that Politics was how you go about planning the economy and central to that is actual real wealth generation. So, policies which ignore this are apt to be less efficient at generating wealth than others.

You could also say that looking at the backgrounds/lifestyles/pay of our servants/masters, wealth generation was not at the top of the agenda, more like self indulgent Robin Hood style sloath.....that's a good word.

Anyway.....back on topic!

IF Crofty are successful and set up some processing plant, it will allow other companies to look more favourably at reopening old mines (or working ore "rich" old waste tips) as this facility could be shared and take in material mined outside of crofty.
Most of the sites closed in the last 50 years could be reopened if some company showed an interest as they are still sort of Brown field sites. But I can imagine the controvesy if they wanted to open some restored engine house in a nice coastal area.

---

it's good to see Crofty doing something useful. I'd like to think this will be a productive focus of the SW mining industry for a long time to come.

I can't see Wheal Jane being reworked in any foreseeable future. I work with a couiple of people who knew Jane well in the 70s and 80s, and the consensus seems to be that there are reserves there but (a) the water is unmanageable without a general resumption of mining in the area and (b) the mill side is a serious issue due to the complex and changeable nature of the ores.

I don't believe Cligga will be reworked in any foreseeable future, either. There is a long history of people re-proving that there are limited reserves, but they are just not payable except in times of particular need.

Geevor is simply worked out, and the local area doesn't contain enough 'pay ground' to be worked by any foreseeable commercial method.

I don't believe that modern, large-scale operations would have the will or incentive to accept sporadic, piecemeal production from minor local operations. A one-man colliery can sell coal at the gate, because coal is coal, but tin isn't like that.

Hemerdon is real enough, but whether it can be converted from some nice figures on a spreadsheet into a huge, noisy, dusty hole in the ground, Insh'Allah

that's my take on it, anyway

---

That assessment makes sense to me. Plus as far as I'm aware China has very substantial proven reserves of tin with the Russian federation not that far behind.

---

The pros and cons of Crofty aside I strongly suspect that, during the next 20 years at least, any employment even remotely mining related in the SW will be in the heritage sector.

agreed. I can't see any substantial resumption of mining in the SW ( apart from whatever takes place at S Crofty ) while there are major reserves available in countries which don't care at all about HSE or environmental considerations, and have governments which see resource extraction as a central plank of their economies.

---

Stuey's 'yoghurt weavers' are equally as fickle as the government. Like everyone else, they still need to get from A to B, feed themselves and buy flatscreen TV's Etc. No real complaints there, they all have them.
The best example of fickleness having come recently with the return to a nuclear fuelled power industry once more. The erratic price of oil, and the fact that we sold all our north sea gas and oil ventures to foreign companies, has forced the governmental hand to backtrack on the environment issues in order to avoid being held to ransom by some easter bloc oligarch with more oil and gas than OPEC. A good move!
I feel certain that 'home grown' resources will once more prove to be the economic crutch that the country needs, but I suppose Brussels has a statute to say that we can't do that as it would be unfair to other producers.
Let's hope that the Nuclear Power example is rolled out into the extractive industries. We still have vast coal reserves and soon the cost of importing will reach parity with the cost of home production.
Anyway......we'll see, after all, we are living in interesting times. 😉

---

Watch this space! 🙂

---

I decided to get wise and get a few books about renewables so I can make my own mind up without getting to swayed by hyperbole or dogma....The books designed for grad study of renewables/engineering of them was very balanced and interesting. Completely and refreshingly free from pseudo-religious preaching.

Regardless of the debate surrounding man made climate change, carbon conservation is bloody important for peak oil considerations... The book made an interesting observation and said that "carbon" budgeting was making people lean to "shorter chain molecules". So, more gas, more light oil and less coal. Since oil and gas are to be the most short lived, it seemes that perhaps the most important part of carbon budgeting is actually making the real problem, (that of the stuff running out) worse.

I am exceedingly positive about the future of UK coal. If we don't get it out, the Chinese will. I'm sure Coal will pick up relatively quickly.

Looking at the liklihood of the pound getting devalued following the likely loss of our credit rating, I'm sure the UK will become a better place to actually produce things (for a change). There are likely to be a load of economic non-realists who hinder the process of us actually getting on our feet again.

I think the pound, euro and dollar all have a long way to fall relative to the producing nations.

We shall see eh?

Apart from the Camborne/Redruth area there are other areas which I would like to see investigated further and could potentially have a future. One might say that the area around Wheal Vor / Great Work / Leedstown would certainly be one. Much tin has already come from this area as we all know. The mines in the Leedstown area have all produce copper, but have not been explorered at depth for potential tin. Crenver and Abraham only just reached the granite and from the reports I have read, tin was beginning to show in the lower levels. Where you might decide to go underground would be interesting considering all the environmental aspects but it would be a good place to look. Some drilling was done in the 1960's, but more would be required. What do you all think ? :smartass:

---

Apart from the Camborne/Redruth area there are other areas which I would like to see investigated further and could potentially have a future. One might say that the area around Wheal Vor / Great Work / Leedstown would certainly be one. Much tin has already come from this area as we all know. The mines in the Leedstown area have all produce copper, but have not been explorered at depth for potential tin. Crenver and Abraham only just reached the granite and from the reports I have read, tin was beginning to show in the lower levels. Where you might decide to go underground would be interesting considering all the environmental aspects but it would be a good place to look. Some drilling was done in the 1960's, but more would be required. What do you all think ? :smartass:

see above, and then go back to Trounson.

you might say almost anything you fancy, but the current situation is that there are limited, unproven reserves at great depth in a whole range of places in Cornwall, but none of them are payable under any current scenario.

Crofty stands to prove there is payable ground between the Great Flat Lode and Dolcoath, but right now they have it all to do.

none of the other locations are even credible prospects right now, and I greatly doubt that most of them ever will be

---

What about some of the china clay pits which intersect old mine workings? You have a 200m head start and no issues with use of a new site and someone who wants to use the water you pump out.
The complication will be finding out how much tin is actually around in those areas and whether it is worth extracting.

---

The complication will be finding out how much tin is actually around in those areas and whether it is worth extracting.

Rather a large complication I feell!

---

the fact of the matter is, that Cornwall has been picked over, in great detail, by a lot of knowledgeable people for a very long time.

If there's anything of value remaining it will be well known.

South Crofty's current plans are based on information which has been available in some part, for a very long time. Trounson mentions the Wide Formation, so do others. The tin values in depth at Dolcoath have been known for many years, apart from details of values which are going to be ( apparently ) assessed by core drilling from the new decline. ASo, they have a substantial corpus of detailed technical information, plans to get more, and a site which already offered much of what they needed to gain access.

look at the problems which have surrounded their activities, and project that onto a hypothetical new major underground site. It's a complete non-runner.

the only feasible sites are the existing moonscapes of recent major sites; and of these, Pendarves is largely worked out and was of no great value when working; Wheal Jane and Mount Wellington are in some part occupied by third parties, and the technical and economic problems of resumption are judged insuperable; Geevor and the surrounding area is for all practical purposes, worked out; and Concord never amounted to much. Cligga and St Agnes aren't payable.

the only one I would take at all seriously on a 20-year timeframe is Hemerdon, and what is going on there, who knows but it won't happen any time soon.

---

Interesting stuff. Hemerdon in the next 20 years. I gather from various sources that people with drill rigs were looking around not just at Cligga. That has all gone quiet.

As for mines by quarries, I gather Hingston Down has permission to extract and really, it would make more sense to go in from the quarry, rather than go down. As for China Clay, I think Beam Mine and Stones were very rich for tin, but worked out and in horrible ground. I went looking for Old Beam and found a shaft, but that was it. Interesting write up in Ham Jenks.

Redmoor is also down to be worked and I gather there was serious interest here relatively recently. I suppose when the quarry is done at Hingston Down, which it will be at some point, it would be a place to site the mill. I don't imagine people would allow them to put a mill up in a greenfield site around there.

Mother was chatting to a guy who worked at Concord on the Geo side of things (forget his name) and his take on it was that the current workings were someone's tax sink.

I gather that despite China having access to huge reserves, there still wasn't enough to go around. I doubt that Slackjaw and Slugbrows have abolished boom and bust and so we'll see prices go up every successive boom. At some point, as with oil/gas we'll see the price get serious enough to get investors properly looking.

20 years is a fair time and we can probably see another boom-bust-boom cycle if history is anything to go by.

Concord was a bit of a comical small scale operation, depsite this it actually was viable at that point in time (assuming Mr Cynical was wrong) and if that is the case, there are a lot more potential Concords than Croftys.

I would estimate small scale mining to make a fair return before the turn of the century. Having said, I am a bit romantic. But, the alternative may see us living in caves. Bearing in mind that elfnsafety and all that other crap will progressively cripple developing nations due to things like the IPCC, UN, etc.

If the Indian and Chinese people want electrical gear, we will see some interesting price rises.....I expect...

Concord site is an interesting one, has anyone got any sections/plans that could be eyeballed? That's another thread though.........

Hemerdon again, is a site where most of the serious investigation has been done; the coring, and the inclined drive for bulk sampling, in particular. It's well known, in the sort of detail that needs to be covered, that it is both workable and payable in the right market.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the rest. The nature of SI is such that a considerable amount of work is required to have any real idea of what is there; but small amounts are cheap and they are a good tax sink.

I'd always understood that Concord was viable in the same sense as Pendarves; that it sort-of covered its ongoing operating costs once developed, and provided a product that had a market. Repaying the original outlay, different matter.

---