The price of coal is the price of coal, opencast or deep mined has no bearing on the price.

I suppose that must also apply to all the other products we import as it's cheaper to purchase, (including transport costs) than to produce in the UK?

Some countries supply items to the UK at a loss just to get hard currency into their country. We have had many industries close in the UK because companies want to make as much profit as they can so they import goods. Companies could make modest profits while producing items in the UK but it is all money driven.

With coal, the coal is purchased on a contract tonnage, the price set by the cost of the gigajoule, a unit of energy that is produced from coal. So if you can supply the right tonnage at the right cost of a gigajoule then you win the contract, it doesn't matter if its deep mined or opencast coal. Both types of mined coal gets the same amount of money per tonne.

Yes,the price of coal is the same,but the overheads to obtain it are vastly different in some cases.

Very true, some South American countries exported opencast coal at a loss. Some UK mines produced coal cheaper than the world price of coal only to be beaten by subsidised imports.

I think we can agree on the cost of coal issue but still think the cost will generally be dictated by the cost of extraction and cannot see how UK coal, however extracted, can compete with foreign competition.
I believe UK coal was always subsidised by the taxpayer from 1948 in a similar manner to the current Columbian situation. This was definitely the case with our vast historic export market.

I believe Tata steel steel have a similar problem at the moment where both ore and steel prices are dictated by the Chinese. Nothing to do with UK based profit motivation in these sorts of market.

Its all politics, trade and profit.

UK Generators were paying 10 pound a ton less for UK Coal,work that out?
After the strike when the UK was flooded with Chinese coal,at the time in the Smallmine i was working,we were paid 10 per ton of coal produced,the company was getting 40 per ton,it was dropped down to 36,then 30 per ton,
We were competing with Miner`s in China on 2.50 per week wages.
At that time there were near on 90 odd Smallmines in South Wales alone,all small concerns,making a profit,supplying housecoal locally and employing around 1500 men,
Only 1 remains on an on and off basis,surprising really with the price of Anthracite.

We were competing with Miner`s in China on 2.50 per week wages.

When you factor in the sigificant costs of UK regulation the picture looks even bleaker for UK production.

We were competing with Miner`s in China on 2.50 per week wages.

When you factor in the sigificant costs of UK regulation the picture looks even bleaker for UK production.

But if the factor of unemployment and benefits were factored in,the picture looks different.

Wheldale,that post of yours on the paper on Houghton Main on Coal Pro Boards gives a wider picture of the consequences of closure against working,
I`m sure some here would find it an eye opener.

This is an interesting read.

http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/socsi/resources/TheCaseforHoughton.pdf 

We were competing with Miner`s in China on 2.50 per week wages.

When you factor in the sigificant costs of UK regulation the picture looks even bleaker for UK production.

But if the factor of unemployment and benefits were factored in,the picture looks different.

When you factor in the unemployment and benefits the picture does change a little but China does not, and never has, subscribed to this particular sort of social engineering. They do things differently in a way which further reduces our competitivness.

Totally agree Morlock,one has only to look at Chinese Mining fatalities for the last 30yrs,
But Chinese coal has`nt been a big hitter in our imports for 20yrs or more,only a small amount of anthracite is exported by China,the coking and steam they use themselves along with a lot of imports from Australia.

I would be interested (as would others I suspect) in any graphs or figures on how the uk coal imports have fluctuated since the miners strike and our current position regarding imports.
I'm sure it's quite complex so a rough outline would bring me up to speed.

Edit: Web sources seem wildly at odds on some figures!

Don`t know about fluctuating imports since the Strike,but imports have definitely increased,
Especially last year winter,we burned more coal than 1985,because of high gas prices.

Thanks, that possibly helps explain the various 'facts' dug up on the net, suspect things are much more complicated since general de-regulation and apparent lack of a sensible long term energy policy.

Ty Gwyn; hit the nail cleanly on the head with this:

Its all politics, trade and profit.

Morlock:

When you factor in the sigificant costs of UK regulation the picture looks even bleaker for UK production.

If I throw another curved ball in here, if we look at the world energy markets at this time we see the beginnings of a battle for dominance of the energy markets beginning. At this time it was oil which dominated and controlled everything, hence the decision to explore the oil from coal possibilities which led to the oil from coal plant being built.

However another battle was looming, this attack was from electricity and now with the advantage of many years we can see this battle quite plainly. With oil reserves depleting and costs rising electricity producers amalgamated to attack oil to try to take its place as the worlds dominant fuel.

Look at the evidence, electric vehicles, masses of funding in battery technology, masses of investment in motor technologies, and offshoot industries such as robotics. Most of their funding comes through a roundabout of companies from electricity producers to the researchers.

Presume the plant near Point of Ayr you mention was built,although it did`nt last long when them rigs went up in Liverpool bay,
But oil from coal was hardly new technology,Hitlers war machine ran on it.

Whatever the clowns in Westminster say,Coal is still a big player in the energy market,the energy minister is talking of phasing coal out by 2030 if i remember correctly,yet Drax are planning building a clean coal plant.although Westminster are dragging their feet on the EU funding of this plant,
Would they have even considered this coal plant,if not for the phalacy of their wood chip fiasco,
Germany`s push to build Lignite power stations,
The business of Carbon Trading is no different to having a good accountant,ie you can burn tyres as long as you plant a few tree`s,its all Bullshit,
And its similar accountants that made a lot of pits look in the Red,pump in Millions in equipment,then look at the books before this equipment as even started coaling,
If this total of waste investment was added up,it would show a Government hell bent on closing an industry at any cost,to rely on cheap imports,that ain`t that cheap anymore.

A bit off thread but..
When I read the initial posting I though "Oh no" and could see blood up the walls. But this was (fortunately) not to be. People these days just arn't interested in politics enough to get worked up about things as in the past.
The two main parties are now so close to the middle, there's no red and blue any more, just slightly different tinges of purple!
:lol:

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I couldn't agree more!! The Tories did a lot of damage and Labour didn't help the industry either when they got into power. Its a shame really.

The British coal mining industry was really well thought of globally. Chances were if a piece of equipment was to the NCB spec it was allowed to be used in many countries.

Such a great industry, shame its been allowed to go to the wall.

They are all one and the same, they just wear different colours so they don't get confused as to which party they represent.

They don't represent the people that's for sure.

If you want actual proof of this then research "The Crown" as this will clearly show that the UK is run by the crown who are a corporation and not the reigning monarch as many believe.

It may be a little off topic but it will give people a true understanding of how the UK works and most likely open a few peoples eyes.

They are all one and the same, they just wear different colours so they don't get confused as to which party they represent.

They don't represent the people that's for sure.

If you want actual proof of this then research "The Crown" as this will clearly show that the UK is run by the crown who are a corporation and not the reigning monarch as many believe.

It may be a little off topic but it will give people a true understanding of how the UK works and most likely open a few peoples eyes.

Dude, give it a rest with the conspiracy bullshit. :curse: