How dangerous is mine exploration?· Page 4

Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians

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royfellows
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Newbie

11 years ago

#61

"Manicminer" wrote:

"royfellows" wrote:
Its a valid opinion Rick but somewhere in Wales there is a "DEB 1954"
A lot of people would be upset if it were to be scrubbed out.

For those not in the know its David Ewart Bick

I once dug out a collapsed adit entrance about 20 years ago. I thought that I would be the first person in the mine for a long time only to find "D Bick 196*" etched on the end in black soot from a carbide lamp. It's a valid piece of 'old' graffiti today :-)

Can you remember where it was please?

His companion on those trips was the late George W Hall and I remember showing him one of my lamps at his home once, I also remember his comment about using carbide lamps in his day.

My avatar is a poor likeness.

Graigfawr
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Newbie

11 years ago

#62

In many difficult to access locations in mid Wales you will find "NCMC" at the end of the passage or at the top of the climb.

[= North Cardiganshire Mining Club]

Various people over the years have pushed a range of difficult climbs in Ogof Ffynnon Ddu only to find "MF" and a date at the top.

[= Martyn Farr]

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

11 years ago

#63

"Graigfawr" wrote:
In many difficult to access locations in mid Wales you will find "NCMC" at the end of the passage or at the top of the climb.

[= North Cardiganshire Mining Club]

Various people over the years have pushed a range of difficult climbs in Ogof Ffynnon Ddu only to find "MF" and a date at the top.

[= Martyn Farr]

Sounds like a bit of an ego trip to me. :thumbdown:

exspelio
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Newbie

11 years ago

#64

Remembering some of Martyns epic efforts back in the '80's, I think he was entitled to a bit of ego, if only to remind climbers and diggers of subsequent times that the bubble blowers got there first 😉

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.

christwigg
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Newbie

11 years ago

#65

I don't really hold it against them.

In the days before you could take a selfie on your mobile phone and have it on Facebook within 10 seconds, how else did anyone prove they had done something first.

;D

Tamarmole
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Newbie Topic Starter

11 years ago

#66

"exspelio" wrote:
Remembering some of Martyns epic efforts back in the '80's, I think he was entitled to a bit of ego, if only to remind climbers and diggers of subsequent times that the bubble blowers got there first ;)

Fair point.

Manicminer
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Newbie

11 years ago

#67

"royfellows" wrote:

"Manicminer" wrote:

"royfellows" wrote:
Its a valid opinion Rick but somewhere in Wales there is a "DEB 1954"
A lot of people would be upset if it were to be scrubbed out.

For those not in the know its David Ewart Bick

I once dug out a collapsed adit entrance about 20 years ago. I thought that I would be the first person in the mine for a long time only to find "D Bick 196*" etched on the end in black soot from a carbide lamp. It's a valid piece of 'old' graffiti today :-)

Can you remember where it was please?

His companion on those trips was the late George W Hall and I remember showing him one of my lamps at his home once, I also remember his comment about using carbide lamps in his day.

I remember exactly were it is :thumbsup: one of the copper workings at Ffriddgoch (in the Dolgellau gold belt). I can take you there if you wish.

Gold is where you find it

Peter Burgess
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Newbie

11 years ago

#68

I have known only one instance of explorers' graffiti being of any practical use. There is a heavily sooted passage, due to a pile of burning tyres in the 1950s in Godstone Main Series. Where the rock has since cracked or spalled away, or there has been any fall of the roof, it has exposed clean rock. The graffiti, comprises inscriptions scratched through the soot. This is how we have a rough idea of when the fire happened by looking for the oldest date, and therefore have a baseline date for the subsequent deterioration.

paulthenewt
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Newbie

11 years ago

#69

Some of the 'explorers' in limestone quarries, that are leaving arrows, seem to be Urbex enthusiasts. Some seem to be taking groups of party goers into underground workings, and seem to not have the respect for the surroundings that most mine explorers expect.

PaultheNewt

ColinA
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

11 years ago

#70

Back on Topic
All incidents involving rescue of individuals from caves/ abandoned mines, whether fatalities or not will have resulted in a callout involving local cave/mine rescue units .These are collated and held by the statistics officer for MREW/BCRC. Annual tables of incidents/Locations/causes/injuries/fatalities. are produced and held on databases.
Since all callouts are at the behest of the Police then a record exits there too

ColinA

Graigfawr
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Newbie

11 years ago

#71

Descent magazine has published annual summaries for about 20 years with a short narrative for each call out.

The summaries include all mine exploration call outs. Caving call outs predominate by a considerable margin - but we have only a very approximate idea of the size of the UK caving community, and even less of a numerical grasp of the size of the UK mine exploration community, so it would be extremely problematic to attempt a calculation of relative accident rates of mine exploration versus caving.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that in relation to number of trips or number of hours underground, mine exploration results in fewer accidents than caving. This is based on 30-odd years of going underground, roughly 50:50 mining to caving, the mining (mostly lead) including a good deal of pushing in little-trodden areas and digging.

royfellows
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Newbie

11 years ago

#72

"Graigfawr" wrote:
Descent magazine has published annual summaries for about 20 years with a short narrative for each call out.

The summaries include all mine exploration call outs. Caving call outs predominate by a considerable margin - but we have only a very approximate idea of the size of the UK caving community, and even less of a numerical grasp of the size of the UK mine exploration community, so it would be extremely problematic to attempt a calculation of relative accident rates of mine exploration versus caving.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that in relation to number of trips or number of hours underground, mine exploration results in fewer accidents than caving. This is based on 30-odd years of going underground, roughly 50:50 mining to caving, the mining (mostly lead) including a good deal of pushing in little-trodden areas and digging.

I agree with this completely.

In a large number of caving call outs water will form part of the equation. November is highest, I believe they call it "the silly season".
Think about it

My avatar is a poor likeness.

Rostam
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Newbie

11 years ago

#73

I think cavers are more safety conscious than mine explorers... *ducks*

It's useless to compare the two and accident rate only tells half the story. How severe are injuries etc. Plus there should be a base level of rescues if everyone's following procedure. Accidents happen after all.

It should also be pointed that there are safer caves/mines and dangerous ones too. Much of the stuff in Derbyshire is on the cave mine continuum so it's often a false distinction.

Anyway by far the most dangerous part of both activities is driving home tired late at night. At least that's what my risk assessment says!

sinker
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Newbie

11 years ago

#74

"Rostam" wrote:

I think cavers are more safety conscious than mine explorers... *ducks*

The Thursday Nighters understand EXACTLY how Rostam feels about this. :lol::lol::lol: ;)

@Rostam: sorry I missed your last trip with us while I was away, I hope you will find time to make it out with us next time you are over here :thumbup:

Yma O Hyd....

NewStuff
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Newbie

11 years ago

#75

"Rostam" wrote:
I think cavers are more safety conscious than mine explorers... *ducks*

Depends on the mine explorer. I know some that are bats**t crazy, and I know some that I would happily sign up to any trip they do, sight unseen.

As with everything, shades of gray rather than black or white.

Searching for the ever elusive Underground Titty Bar.

DDDWH CC

J25GTi
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Newbie

11 years ago

#76

"NewStuff" wrote:

"Rostam" wrote:
I think cavers are more safety conscious than mine explorers... *ducks*

Depends on the mine explorer. I know some that are bats**t crazy, and I know some that I would happily sign up to any trip they do, sight unseen.

As with everything, shades of gray rather than black or white.

Had a good trip this weekend that showed exactly that....

5 participants and we pushed some limits quite far, it was interesting to see people reach the limit and refuse to push on, where as others were happy to push on some more.

I think knowing your limits is the important part of this sport,. Knowing when enough is enough and time to call it a a day!

I have been told that myself and the usual crew I mine with are batshit crazy but I don't see it....

Tamarmole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

11 years ago

#77

I think it is really important to push limits in mine exploration. Last week I was almost buried in a collapsing dig and also pushed myself well beyond my comfort zone on a very exposed traverse.

That said it is even more important to know when to say enough is enough and run away. A healthy dollop of cowardice is a real asset for a mine explorer.