Could any of you learned fellows tell me what the state of the dug out passage into the Loncleugh vein is? This being the one you get to after passing the Ballroom. You can easily walk the left turn up to a sump (does this go anywhere?) and there is an awkward dug out squeeze for the other directions.

I had a quick look up last weekend but being on my own decided against going through the bit propped up with scaffold tubes. It seems to get into a full passage but my partial good sense stopped me progressing any further...

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This is the site of the way into the Longcleugh veins, both the Longcleugh Vein and the larger second Sun Vein.
Around 1975 I suggested to the late John McNeil we should look for the connection between Smallcleugh and these Veins.A group of P.D.M.H.S. members started digging in this area and eventually Earby dug into Second Sun Vein.
The arching in here is double normal width and pictures of it used to be on the wall of a local pub.
Unfortunately the way in constantly collapsed and had to be dug out each time you visited this area.I always took a shovel with me to make sure I could dig my way out!
Eventually there was an even larger fall and the way in remained blocked for a long time.
More recently it has been dug in the way described unfortunately the direct way into Longcleugh Second Sun Vein is blocked and you make a severe left hand turn which should eventually lead you to a crawl into Second Sun Vein.
This is blocked at it's end and this should be where any future dig into this system should take place!
The rubbish would have to be pulled back to the main passage as you have no stacking room in the area of the dig!
Before it fell in it was a low which lead to the main passage on Second Sun Vein close to it's intersection with Longcleugh Vein. Did I mention the water?
There is some,but not in the area of the potential dig.
Hope this clarifies things.

Not been there for a few years, but you can see:

http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk/smallcleugh/sc_lcv_flats_230207/sc_lcv_flats_230207.htm 

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The dig is well supported and quite sound.

Through the dig (& from memory, as it was some time ago), the sump crossed by rails, mentioned on Mikes website goes down about 60ft to a short section of level, still railed, but collapsed both ways.
The wet shaft, we maypoled, to a short level, walled up at the end with small sections of iron pipe sticking out? Don't think anyone had been up there as there were no modern boot prints and a couple of clay pipes on a ledge. The shaft continued up, but from what I remember, the roof of the level prevented us positioning the pole to gain much further height.

If you wanted to be really brutal about it.... Where you crawl through from the main level.... The cr*p has come down from Middlecleugh. Dig it out and above there's a sublevel off heading back in the direction of the Ballroom. There's a left branch off it. Left hand wall in the branch has a hopper that you can climb, goes up about 10 feet into a pretty collapsed working, maybe a Flatt... There are holes in the floor... I think, it was the 3rd one??? My memory's vague had an old rail across it. Goes down 40 feet or so, into the first large Flatt on Longcleugh, from there of course you can access the beautiful double sized arching...
You would of course have to dig out the collapse on the junction first.....

Has anyone ever tried digging eastwards coming from Carrs Cross Vein? I know I've looked down that way before but I can't for the life of me remember the nature of the blockage.

It was a big fall that side Rich. We came across some new wooden slats there (trademark of Moles), but have not been back to have a look since.

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I'm up for some digging, no experience but still enthusiastic/stupid!

Another question, when ambling back past the Ballroom, I noticed that there are a few side passages/stopes off the East side of the level. Some unhealthy looking timber and some stones that have got so glued together with calcite that they are still there despite a lack of supporting timber rather put me off having a rummage.

On the same front, at the junction for the ballroom level, while slithering over the fall I was having a contemplation of what was up the rise and noticed that there is tunnel beyond the fall. Someone has been in there judging by the bits of bamboo in the bit on the right but has anyone had a proper investigate? I would have wriggled in but for the need of a shovel to slightly widen the hole...

Is anything known about these or are they just those places we pass by on the way to something more interesting?

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Hi RJV,
I lead a group of diggers who included Roy Fellows and Billy Grifffin to do exactly what you suggested. We carried out this around 8 years ago.
The branch which should eventually lead towards the ballroom is blocked by an hormganous fall!
Digging it really is a non-starter, since any materials that are required have to come through the severe falls you meet on Carrs Vein, immediately after leaving Middlecleugh 2nd Sun Vein.
We did make a short break through on the other branch which heads towards Bogg's Shaft.
As far as I know this is still open.

Slipped my mind the crawls on Carr's, that would limit the length of anything + a right ball ache to get to the dig sight. Other end sound much better.

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If it took a largescale CAT style dig to get through the collapse from the west, it might be that the ideal route in for materials would be via Longcleugh Shaft. A vast amount of gear could be got to near the dig site in a relatively short time without the need to run endless grim relays up and down horse levels. Can't think of any obstructions that way you couldn't get something up to 6ft long through except perhaps the head of the pitch down from the flat immediately below Middlecleugh though I expect that could be overcome or bypassed.

All just idle speculation obviously. Whether a endeavour of that magnitude would be worthwhile for an interesting but isolated section of the mine is a different question altogether!

Hi Smallceugh people,
The main advantage of a dig from the Carr's side is that if you could get through then you would be in completely unexplored ground on Longcleugh Vein.
As I described previously the fall is enormous.
The vein at this point is very wide not dissimilar to the width around the way up to Bogg's shaft from the Smallcleugh random and is the complete collapse of aa large stope.
That is why on balance I think the Ballroom end looks the better bet.

just out of interest is there any such 'register of diggers' type list anywhere?? ie a list of project digs and and more importantly a list of volunteer for 'umping carrying digging or what ever needs doing

I suspect there could be quite few bodies willing to have a go

I'm with Nick in the enthusiastic/stupid category for what its worth

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I think no is the simple answer.

Its very rare for a dig to be a publically announced event, although there have been exceptions with the Bentyfield and High Bentyfield digs arranged by Peter in the past.

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/community/viewtopic.aspx?t=6945 
http://www.aditnow.co.uk/community/viewtopic.aspx?t=6091 

Well at least now there are two available and currently enthusiastic volunteers should anyone like some help on a dig.

Numbers of available diggers may go down as well as up

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And in the spirit of old mines this one comes with a small(ish) child keen on being worked hard!

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I have uploaded a scan of part of a 1970s survey of this part of the mine. (In Smallcleugh documents) The paper is disintegrating and so its not pretty to look at. (Red is SC, Green is MC, Yellow is RG) However, from this you might see that the best dig would be the one south of the Ballroom, south of Longcleugh vein and then go west at the next junction. This leads into several flats and into a long drive on Longcleugh 2nd sun vein. Coming east on Longcleugh vein from near Barrons Sump is an evil fall in collapsed limestone. Sign me up for the dig beyond the Ballroom. (PS: I am redrawing the survey ).

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Very interesting survey, I had no idea those areas were open in the 1970s.

Whats the "x" marked 'Approx Site' that just goes off the edge of the paper ?

Buried treasure ?

wouldn't take me long to vectorise that drawing....

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The x is the approximate site of the forehead shown on the LLCo plan of 1820s. ie going south on SC X Vein

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