I have noticed over the past ten years the rise in the amount of graffiti appearing underground. Let me clarify what I mean by graffiti; this is the 'Billy Woz Ere' type and not the general warnings left by mine explorers about false floors bad air and deep holes etc.
It's annoying in a lot of ways, spoiling this otherwise 'isolated from the everyday world' environment, and turning it into an extension of the 'urban' scene that we are so happy to leave behind.
Sadly, often the names I see I recognise, and these are people who purport to have an interest in the u/g environment and are first to shout as soon as issues about access or the destruction of mining sites arises!
One mine I have been visiting for over thirty years has suddenly attracted a lot of newcomers, primarily beacause access is relatively easy. but in amongst this collection of names has lately appeared one who was a trip leader at a recent NAMHO field meet.
Now call me old and daft if you wish, but that goes somewhat against the grain with me and having talked to others, they are of the same opinion.
Erasing this graffiti, generally on timbers, ruins the age old patina and buggers up any picture you might like to take, and please, don't say Photoshop, we shouldn't need it for that.
The 'Gallery' in Cligga is an exeption where people make small models from the clay on the floor and attach them to the walls sometimes with the names of the party and a date. everyone accepts this as ok as it is kept ot a very small area and the clay could be removed causing no damage.
I would be most interested to find out if anyone else feels the same.
Stay safe,
Roy.M 🙂

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Ho yus, beyond the helpful warnings and mudmen, graffiti really gets my goat.

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Always been a problem - some of my shots of the Cwmorthin Back Vein Incline back in the '70's had to be doctored for printing due to the foul language scrawled on the roof.

The old adage "leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but photographs" (and memories) is a good one.

Graham

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I would be most interested to find out if anyone else feels the same.
Roy.M 🙂

Ver definitely, Roy. And on a similar theme, garbage left underground is always disappointing to encounter.

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One of the things which worries me about this modern graffiti is that say in a hundred years time you will end up with todays graffiti along side very old graffiti.
i.e. 'Billy Woz Ere 2007' in the same mine as 'John Smith July 1874'

So in a hundred years time (and say now one else went after Billy) both bits will be 'old' but ofcourse only one is (likely to) done by a real miner.

Also in a hundred years time how would they know when the said mine actually closed?

Maybe notes left by mine explorers to other mine explorers about safety etc should be noted as being left by mine explorers?

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One of the things which worries me about this modern graffiti is that say in a hundred years time you will end up with todays graffiti along side very old graffiti.
i.e. 'Billy Woz Ere 2007' in the same mine as 'John Smith July 1874'

So in a hundred years time (and say now one else went after Billy) both bits will be 'old' but ofcourse only one is (likely to) done by a real miner.

Also in a hundred years time how would they know when the said mine actually closed?

Maybe notes left by mine explorers to other mine explorers about safety etc should be noted as being left by mine explorers?

You can actually find "old" problematic examples of this happening- I've seen grafitti dating to the 1930's in some places, but there's no way of telling whether this was so local youths wandering in with candles for a dare, or a miner coming in to see if the mine was worth having another crack at. Having said that, I suspect future mine explorers will tend to assume writings from the latter half of the 20th century are vandalism....

As for rubbish down mines, sometimes it beggars belief - for example, who in their right mind would take cans of strong lager as an accompaniment for a trip into Odin mine? Someone did.... :blink:

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As for rubbish down mines, sometimes it beggars belief - for example, who in their right mind would take cans of strong lager as an accompaniment for a trip into Odin mine? Someone did.... :blink:

Entirely agree, it's a real pity that there are some people who will go to the effort of exploring a mine, or walking up a mountain, presumably because they want to, yet will think nothing of leaving rubbish behind. You perhaps expect it in town, or outside McDonalds, but I'm always amazed what people leave behind, and how hey don't seem to think there's anything wrong with it.

A good while back I remember exploring a section of a north wales slate mine, which we'd gone to some effort to get to, and when we finally got in, there was an empty bottle of VKD Blue at the back of the chamber :curse:

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Maybe we should have a dedicated album called the 'The Wall Of Shame' or something similar where photos of wanton vandalism and garbage could be posted...

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I've mixed views on this one, one of my favourite artifacts in Smallcleugh is a White's Lemonade can, obvioulsy been there for decades but vry out of context.
I can spend hours reading old graffiti too, there was a case not so long ago down in Wiltshire were well meaning clean up efforts actually erased graffiti dating back to the 20's and 30's.
Keeping modern rubbish to a minimum is one thing but sterilison a mine is completely another, where do we draw the line?

Or perhaps 'window of remembrance'. Before Taylor's Shaft at East Pool closed, the men who were then working there etched their names on the glass of one of the windows. Try taking a photo of it!!!

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In time everything underground becomes part of the fabric of the mine.
Where do we draw the line ? Well, maybe we should be asking 'Who should draw the line ?' I say - we should. Experienced explorers with a sense of history have no problem distinguishing an object that has matured into an artifact, from the disrespectful discards of the curious U/G tourist. The 'mine police' can certainly do much damage with the noblest of motives though, as Jagman describes. I believe the shrine at the end of the Croesor/Rhosydd through trip was once 'cleaned up'.
There is a mine shaft close to me that is regularly used as a convenient dumping place for the carcasses of dead sheep. This is apart from the issues raised in this thread, illegal. Next time I am in there, I intend collecting some ear tags and submitting them the appropriate body. And in Smallcleugh, in the mid 80s, I first saw a pile of discarded garbage that was left by people that I think had camped in there. Over 25 years later that pile if crap is still there. One day it may be elevated to 'Artifact Status', but it will be quite some time yet, I think.

On a similar vein (sorry) I have a real problem with people drawing arrows on walls. Why not leave a paper trail that could be collected on the way out ? No paper ?? Well then.... let them eat cake !

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You draw the line at the point where it would be if it was yours. Do unto others...etc.
Graffiti, litter and vandalism are the banes of my life. Theft also comes into it.
I photograph lichens, mosses and ferns. It is quite common to return to a favoured spot and find that 100 years of lichen growth has been rubbed out or the wall has been pushed over or !!!! No respect for themselves, other people, their community and culture.
I suspect that dumped motorcars come under the same heading! Blood pressure has risen!! Argggg! :curse:

The arrows on walls can be realy annoying. Ive been visiting one mine for years and don't have to be a genius to find your way out, but no, someone has sprayed white arrows on the wall to show thw way out!! Why not lay it out in stones on the floor or mark it in the dirt on the floor?!!
The matter of what constitutes grafitti is of course contentious, and the 'Billy woz ere' type offers nothing (other that the obvious) to the mine explorer in the way of historical interest. The clay tablets on the walls in Old Millclose Lead Mine in Derbyshire, are a real treat to behold, and coupled with some of the artifacts, offer valuable information about the miners that worked there.
Old grafitti on the whole,tends to be small and relatively unobtrusive whereas the trend these days is to use very large letters that you can read from thirty feet away.
I don't know if any of you are familiar with a radio 4 program called 'Ed Reardon's Week'. I would love to hear what he would have to say on the subject.
Careful on the BP Gwynn!
Roy.M

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