Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
Underground Photography like any kind of photography, is curious blend of art and science. Both are essential and the absence of either will result in a poor product. The science part is having a true insight into the relationship between light levels, space and time. With this understanding comes the ability to program your camera for optimum pictures.

Lets start with the concept of exposure. This has two elements. Light Level and Time.
Simply put, a Low Light Level + Long Time = High Light Level + Short Time.
The quantities available of both of these elements are determined by the equipment at the photographer disposal. I think it is fair to say that usually there is only a finite & small amount of light available underground, but this can be compensated for by increasing the time element of the equation.

Another governing factor is the ISO number. This should be set as low as possible. But remember, the lower the ISO, the more exposure will be required. A low ISO accompanied with more exposure will always give the best results. Low ISO numbers are great for small passages, but become less useful with larger areas. Unless a greater amount of light can be called upon to illuminate a larger area, the ISO will have to be raised. This, in effect makes the camera more light sensitive, but the price that has to be paid for this is a deterioration in picture quality. Very large ISO numbers for example 400 will introduce unwanted elements into the photograph in the form of graininess and colour deformation.

So the science aspect has the following elements that must be balanced and assessed:
Light Level
Exposure Time
ISO Number
Area To Be Photographed.

Lets consider the last item on the list. I like to think of the first three items as the photographer weapons with which to tame the area to be photographed. The larger the area, the harder this is to accomplish. What must be grasped is the fact that the quantity of exposure (Light + Time) required to photograph increasingly larger chambers is not linear. If chamber 1 required “X” amount of exposure and chamber 2 is twice as large as chamber 1, then it will not require twice as “X” to photograph, but more like 4 times as much. This is the major contributing factor that makes big chamber shots so difficult. With the biggest chambers, simply getting enough exposure can be a tour de force.
(Tip) I should mention that whilst exposing a larger area, the foreground will almost certainly acquire enough exposure from the incidental light used to illuminate the background. To directly illuminate the foreground, even for a very short time, risks over-exposing the foreground.


And now we come to the artistic side of Underground Photography. This is what will have the biggest impact on the quality of your photographs. Let us consider a basic passage shot. It is too easy to simply set up the tripod and expect to see in the photograph something similar to what the eye sees. This will not work/. With a little time and thought it is always possible to improve on the first “Impulsive Shot”. Consider the height of the camera, would it be better lower down ? This can sometimes produce a dramatic effect. How about angling the camera so that one wall of the passage takes up more of the photo? this is nearly always more pleasing to the eye than the 50/50 approach.
Framing the shot is something that must be perfect. Without this basic element the photo will be sub-standard. Look carefully at the four corners of your camera screen. It is sometimes too easy to forget those whilst concentrating on the main elements of the photo. The corners (and the four sides) will sometimes contain intrusive elements that would ruin an otherwise good photo. Its difficult to advise on this aspect of picture composition, but what I can say is – Always try to give more. Think about a photo before you shoot it. Think about how it could be improved. If you are not sure.. then take multiple shots.
Often an underground picture can look confusing where there is nothing to indicate the scale. This is where it is sometimes useful to have someone pose for you. Without a person, a photograph of a dramatic underground scene can look curiously bland when you view it later on the PC screen.

Lastly, don’t be over critical of your photos. I have come to learn that different people have widely different viewpoints when it comes to assessing Underground Photographs.


Nimrod.

STANDBY FOR ACTION!!!!...
simonrl
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18 years ago
An excellent guide Nimrod, many thanks.

And coming from one of the top two UG photographers I know (the other being The Miles).
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
LAP
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18 years ago
Personally I think top are: you (SimonRl) Miles y Nimrod...
You seem to spend a lot of time, my method is usually take out camera... stick on tripod, change shutter mode, put on 10 sec timer... ready torches & flashguns and fire away as soon as peeping stops...
Kein geneis kanaf - Cain gnais canaf
Byt vndyd mwyhaf - byth onddyth moyav
Lliaws a bwyllaf - Líows o boylav
Ac a bryderaf - ac o boryddarav
Kyfarchaf y veird byt - covarcav yr vairth
Pryt nam dyweid - poryth na'm dowaith
Py gynheil y byt - Pa gonail y byth
Na syrch yn eissywyt - na soroc yn eishoyth
Neur byt bei syrchei - nour byth bai sorochai

Barney
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18 years ago
That Nimrod knows his stuff!
I reckon one of the important factors for a good u.g. photo is the ability to highlight the textures. Or put another way, giving the image 3 dimensions rather than flat by the simple method of lighting towards the camera, and, causing shadows towards the camera. There are many other ways of course for the creative person!
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
On the subject of lighting, this guy : http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/p/photography/ 
has a method that produces a very distinctive photographic style. I dont quite know whether I like it or not. It certainly great for detail, but sacrifices a little of the atmosphere. What does anyone think of it ?
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Barney
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18 years ago
Hell of a lot of work!
Those angles would still create the nice shadows that i think make a good photo (most of the time)
This chap hasn't dicovered light cannons yet, the same effects could (?) be created by covering the lens and moving to a new position.
Some of the flash positions are creating a light parallel to the wall, i would imagine this would be difficult initially until you know the angle of light emerging from the flash!
I think that the resulting picture will depict a floor full of flashguns as the rear ones light up the front ones :confused:
simonrl
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18 years ago
"Nimrod" wrote:

On the subject of lighting, this guy : http://www.subbrit.org.uk/sb-sites/sites/p/photography/ 
has a method that produces a very distinctive photographic style. I dont quite know whether I like it or not. It certainly great for detail, but sacrifices a little of the atmosphere. What does anyone think of it ?



Interesting, I wonder does he do all his photography in this method. TBH, it's similar in concept to open flash, just using multiple flashes set up in advance of the shot rather than running around letting one off.

I quite like open flash, but it's unpopular with anybody else present on the trip :)

I know what you mean about loosing atmosphere though, careful use of shadow and darkness can make a shot look much moodier and atmospheric (and by default more appropriate to an underground location) that the same shot with uniform bright lighting.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Vanoord
18 years ago
"simonrl" wrote:

I quite like open flash, but it's unpopular with anybody else present on the trip :)



I have no idea what you're referring to! 😉

Nick Catford's comments about North Wales slate mines confuse me somewhat. IIRC the Nikon 8400 will only crank up to ISO 400, but I usually find that 100 or 200 does the trick. But then I tend to try and take as many pics as possible in order to get a couple of decent ones 😞
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
simonrl
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18 years ago
That part of the article was probably written back in 1988, an age of candles rather than gas discharge hand torches - and by somebody who presumably likes to avoid the artificial warm glow of halogen lamps.

Also, given he presumably uses a decent quality SLR, with decent film (which will go way about ISO400 without the noise the 8400 gives even at 400) then high ISO and flash might make more sense in a massive dark chamber.

Guess it comes down to what you're used to 🙂
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
Some nice ones on here : http://www.sbury8.freeserve.co.uk/mines.htm 
STANDBY FOR ACTION!!!!...
simonrl
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18 years ago
Stunning those - I found his site when Googling for pics of the Ystrad Einion water wheel. Made me feel right unhappy with my water wheel pics 😢
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
Know whatcha mean. Shows whats possible though...
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Vanoord
18 years ago
They look as if they've been lit from an angle of about 100 - 120 degrees from where the camera was, giving that nice shadow that slightly comes back towards you. I assume there wasn't much direct lighting from behind the camera?

Quite an interesting technique, which seems to add a bit of character by putting shadows in the foreground. Without intentionally bigging myself up, this pic shows a similar sort of thing (left hand wall):

[img]http://www.aditnow.co.uk/showimage?f=/community/Glynrhonwy-Isaf-Slate-Mine-13-09-2006-Image-010/[/img]

It was, of course, utterly unintentional 😉
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:



It was, of course, utterly unintentional ;)



:lol: Your too modest !
Where is that place, by the way ?

Whilst your pic has some nice atmosphere, these : http://www.sbury8.freeserve.co.uk/mines1/cwmystwyth/cwmystwyth1.htm 
on the other hand do not. Although they are nice compositions, I cant help but feel they are too bright, too illuminated, no aura of mystery....
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Vanoord
18 years ago
"Nimrod" wrote:

Where is that place, by the way ?



Glynrhonwy is the old ordnance store in Llanberis.

"Nimrod" wrote:

Whilst your pic has some nice atmosphere, these : http://www.sbury8.freeserve.co.uk/mines1/cwmystwyth/cwmystwyth1.htm 
on the other hand do not. Although they are nice compositions, I cant help but feel they are too bright, too illuminated, no aura of mystery....



Yup. Damn big flash you reckon?
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
simonrl
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18 years ago
"Nimrod" wrote:

Where is that place, by the way ?



As the Vanoordster says, it's Glynrhonwy, the old bomb store, you'll find more piccies here:

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Glynrhonwy-Isaf-Slate-Mine-13-09-2006/ 

On the subject of photos with atmosphere, this is my all time favourite photo taken while exploring...

[img]http://www.aditnow.co.uk/showimage?f=/community/Cefn-Du-Slate-Mine-24-11-2005-Image-004/[/img]
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
Bizzarly, an anagram ov Vanoord is - Van Odor (Er... focus on the CaraVAN, not the gent whoever he may be 😉 )
STANDBY FOR ACTION!!!!...
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
"simonrl" wrote:

"Nimrod" wrote:

Where is that place, by the way ?



As the Vanoordster says, it's Glynrhonwy, the old bomb store, you'll find more piccies here:

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Glynrhonwy-Isaf-Slate-Mine-13-09-2006/ 

O



Yes, I was having a look at those pics. An interesting place. Is there any U/G if its a slat mine ? What is the access situation ? Is it worth a trip from Cumbria ?
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simonrl
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18 years ago
I wouldn't come down from Cumbria especially for Glynrhonwy, but if you're in the area it's certainly an interesting place. There's a short tunnel leading out of the back of the storage area to a pit, and other short tunnels in the area, but no proper underground.

When you're next down old bean :)

I've also always wanted, just never got around to (no major undertaking though) to ab into the pit where a 1980s horror film called The Keep was shot.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
LAP
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18 years ago
I'm still in search for any underground workings around Llanberis and Bethesda. Found one in Dinorwig.. without Allan's help..
Photogrpahy in Tunnels, in dinorwig is interesting... a combination of purple slate, and green **** rock...
Kein geneis kanaf - Cain gnais canaf
Byt vndyd mwyhaf - byth onddyth moyav
Lliaws a bwyllaf - Líows o boylav
Ac a bryderaf - ac o boryddarav
Kyfarchaf y veird byt - covarcav yr vairth
Pryt nam dyweid - poryth na'm dowaith
Py gynheil y byt - Pa gonail y byth
Na syrch yn eissywyt - na soroc yn eishoyth
Neur byt bei syrchei - nour byth bai sorochai

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