Someone in the past 2 weeks has started spraying large bright blue arrows in Rampgill, Scaleburn and Caplecleugh , if you know of anymore mines contaminated by this unnecessary vandalism, I'd like to know , In Scaleburn they are at every junction leading to the Horse Gin , then in the main Rampgill adit !! We have had trouble with brainless idiots using spray paint to mark routes in the past , particularly in Smallcleugh where it was sprayed over some original miners graffiti from 1855!

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I saw this along with white arrows on Saturday

I thought that those mines were gated?

I can keep an eye out on the 28days website see if any of the urbexers have made a visit, they really don't understand the sensitivity of using spray paint and more than likely don't even see anything wrong with it! :guns:

When i first started mine exploring, we used chalk to mark a dead stone and laid the stone in the pathway, a much more conservative and temporary way of navigating around. These days i always try and find a map of any new mines or at least a descriptive of the routes.

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This type of vandalism seems to be coming all the more common these days 😞

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I thought that those mines were gated?

Rotating heavy metal gates, too heavy for a child or animal to accidentally gain access, but not locked. The gates are one of the great things about Nenthead.

Very annoying to hear about the vandalism, as has already been said it's getting more common. And a travesty where it obscures period miners graffiti. Some people are so thoughtless :(

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This problem appears to occur spasmodically at Nenthead, it cleans off. Which is a lot less trouble than replacing broken locks and trashed gates, never mind dealing with the ill feeling generated by access control. Thinking about it, whats to stop someone borrowing a key and then paint daubing.

I have said before that mine conservation mainly hinges on remedial intervention as I call it. Paint cleans off, litter can be gathered. Biggest enemy is nature, roof falls take longer. Cleaning off a bit of paint is nothing compared to the effort of keeping our mines open.

At Cwmystwyth rather than spending money on locks and gates we spend it on conservation and preservation.

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That is a good mentality and approach i think Roy, plus i guess it gives good reason to get a group meeting together and get inside litter picking for the day, good bonding for the mining clubs and at the same time conserving the mines we all enjoy exploring.

I have always thought that even if a mine is gated, and a said person obtains a key, then proceeds to spray paint inside, what action could be taken anyway? I seriously doubt that the police would enforce criminal damage charges?

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I have always thought that even if a mine is gated, and a said person obtains a key, then proceeds to spray paint inside, what action could be taken anyway?

Exactly. However it would.........well err......mm
I dont think I will go into that one
;D

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We have been down the 'key route before, and clearly there are 2 distinct positions on this issue.
As for the spray paint, this really is a Problem
Smallcleugh has been the main sufferer here, I have always thought that the deeper water in Capelcleugh and Rampgill kept sprayers out of these mines?
Have things changed that much?

Its spasmodic. There was a rash of arrows appeared in Smallcleugh, I cleaned a lot of them off. They get dealt with eventually.
I hope I never meet any of these -----, I could have anger management problems.

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We were in caplecleugh on Sunday. To find 1 blue arrow on a straight section of level pointing outbye. Then found the word deep sprayed on the wall at the first bit of waist deep water. Thankfully this seems to of put them off as found no more markings

Thankfully this seems to of put them off as found no more markings

Good
Caplecleugh is very unspoiled and I love it. When I go to the far reaches I always feel as though I am part of an elite.
Effing paint. Grrr

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I was in Holme Bank with Spires and some other Masson/PDMHS members last night scrubbing arrows and graffiti off. Like Roy, I may be wishing to claim diminished responsibility if I ever catch the knob-heads responsible in the act - think suppository....:guns:

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Whilst some spray paint is graffiti, arrows are rather different - though still completely out of place and wholly inappropriate.

Leaving aside the genuine vandals, for many people I suspect it is a matter of educating them in what is acceptable and appropriate in historic underground environments. The following example may help us grasp that some people simply do not see arrows or other direction indicators as utterly inappropriate underground:

Twenty or more years ago in a Welsh lead mine an elderly mine surveying companion astonished me by spraying arrows. We had stopped at a junction and he observed that he always felt disorientated in that part of the mine and could I tell him which passage headed east and which headed west. I replied, pointing out which was which and walked a short distance to record some passage detail on the survey notes. On hearing a sound I turned to see him completing two large arrows, one with a "W", and the other with a "E", the letters being 12 inches high. I went pretty ballistic, distinctly shocking him as he was a very quiet chap who never used coarse language. My outrage was twofold - that he should have sprayed underground at all, and that he had used my paint which was a distinctive shade I used to use for the small dots on the roof that mark my survey stations which would surely lead to people assuming that I had sprayed the arrows. I covered the arrows with a thick film of mud; when last I revisited the location, they remained covered. This was a thoughtful, well educated chap who went to significant lengths not to damage artefacts underground but he honestly could not conceive of the arrows being unacceptable and unnecessary.

If this gentleman was a mine surveyor then he may still have been in work mode?
We use spray paint for all sorts of markings underground.
I suppose while a mine is in use this is normal but after abandonment it all becomes part of the history.

I am spending a lot of time lately at Cwmystwyth and derive much amusement from a chalk arrow in Lefel Fawr..........
about 80 metres from daylight.

often when I am working I try to analyse the logic or mentality of this.

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Thankfully this seems to of put them off as found no more markings

Good
Caplecleugh is very unspoiled and I love it. When I go to the far reaches I always feel as though I am part of an elite.
Effing paint. Grrr

I agree Roy!!
Do you happen to have any mine wall colored touch up spray by any chance that we could use on these arrows??:lol:
Small cleugh Main Flatts used to be full of them especially incline and often as not they appeared to end up pointing in completely opposite directions... or 'don't ask me I'm lost too':lol:

The problem is ... it often becomes dangerous. Earlier this week some clown thought it was OK to spray on a stone outside another Lakeland mine a message to the effect they were trapped inside!!

What?

Yes-really, outside an broken open and extensive mine, a message like that.

Never mind the impossibility or unlikeliness of the situation, Joe Public contacts the police and the local MRT and Mines Rescue get involved.

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If this gentleman was a mine surveyor then he may still have been in work mode?
We use spray paint for all sorts of markings underground.
I suppose while a mine is in use this is normal but after abandonment it all becomes part of the history.

My friend's only surveying experience was assisting me - and I was massively grateful for his enthusiastic and patient help over many years.

I fully appreciate that working mines employ spray paint in specific colours for various purposes. I've used my modest share, albeit on surface projects rather than underground. In historic workings where paint was never used, paint, whether arrows or anything else, is strikingly out of place and intrusive.

Many urban explorers take very evocative pictures which have considerable artistic merit, and which often very effectively capture the atmosphere of sites and buildings. If some urban explorers can be so attuned and sympathetic to the subtle atmosphere of places, presumably it may often be ignorance that leads to spraying arrows. If this supposition is correct, the information and education might diminish the painting of arrows.

I would not necessarily blame URBEX. I know for a fact that some of 28DL cleaned up my mess in Talybont, bitter lemon bottles and all.

I think generally they are no respecters of padlocks, but as for whats beyond, they seem to echo "Take only photographs, leave only footprints".

We know when it was done more or less, so a quick check on the URBEX websites for a trip report, I have just looked at 28DL, not surprisingly, nothing.

Give a dog a bad name etc.

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