Some additional thoughts on this. I grew up in the area, and have been underground in that particular mine several times.

It was actually a limestone mine, as it lies below the whinstone. I know that in places the roof is whinstone, as is the rockfall blocking the left fork last time I looked, which was in 1967, so it may well seem confusing. Also, it is correctly known as Craigend Lime Works, at least that is the name that old maps have for the array of limekilns nearby.

Murrayshall Quarry was some distance to the north, in the Gillies Hill, and there have been recent plans to reactivate it, which now looks unlikely to happen. There was at least one adit entrance to the east of the quarry, feeding the limekilns nearby (adjacent to Wallstale), thought to link with a shaft in the Gillies Hill (possibly now removed by quarrying?) and a second adit near Hayford Mills, Cambusbarron, with its own set of kilns, which would have drained the extensive workings assumed to be under Gillies Hill. The Hayford Mills adit was open until recently, probably still is, but the adit beside the quarry was closed, covered by rockfall, or maybe intentionally, long before I first saw it in 1963.

Returning to Craigend Lime Works, there were at least three adit entrances above the south bank of the Bannock Burn. One, you know rather well, judging by the photographs. Downstream there was another, where a drainage ditch seems to emerge from the base of the cliff, and further up the path from the one we know was considerable evidence of at least one, again covered by large boulders. That of course would explain the considerable draught that I assume is still to be felt in the further reaches of the mine.

There are some minor faults in the area, so the level of the limestone changes abruptly. There are at least two exposures in the bed of the Bannock, of the same limestone strata. This, by the way, is more or less the base of the carboniferous, and any coal that was ever deposited here was above the whin and has long since been eroded.

You may also have seen Touchadam Quarry on the north bank of the Bannock, complete with a pillar left standing in the middle. Very strange.

Now we may wonder where the coal to fire the many limekilns came from. I have failed to find a definitive answer so far, but there were coal mines around Auchenbowie and Snabhead to the east (some shafts still open last time I looked), and it seems to me that it would have come, by horse and cart, along the track past Cultenhove Fishery.

Altogether a very interesting area.

Alan

I've just delved into HMSO book 'Limestones of Scotland' after reading your interesting post.

A question - to (hopefully) make things clearer, so I can add or amend the mine list- There is a Murrayshall Limestone mine, a Craigend Limestone mine and the open quarries shown on the OS map on Gillies Hill are also Limestone or are they Whinstone?

The open quarries at Murrayshall and Cambusbarron are whinstone, maybe 100 feet thick, part of the Stirling Sill. The important seam of limestone was maybe 10 feet thick, or a bit more. They left some of it holding up the roof of the mine, because the whin above was highly fractured, and there may have been a layer of very crumbly shale between in some parts..

I will post some more details of that when I can find the correct geology book to confirm, as my memory is a bit rusty. But I believe that over the entire area of the Central Coalfield, it was called the Murrayshall Limestone. And, I think there was another limestone maybe 50 feet below.

Alan

Oh, by the way, the grid references for the various adits are, as near as I can judge from the map, NS761905 (upper Craigend, covered by boulders), 762906 (open), and 764906 (closed).

Murrayshall Lime Works is at NS773908, and the adit at 993910.

The Cambusbarron adit, possibly still open, is at approximately NS774927.

I can't remember exactly where the shaft is or was, maybe about NS773917.

Maybe next time I am in the area I will get an accurate GPS fix of these positions.

just remembering what I said about two layers of limestone. There was a very disturbed area, lots of rocks and a spring, well below the level of the Murrayshall adit, in the field at NS772908, possibly an old collapsed adit, and there was and I think still is, a suspicious hollow adjacent to the open entrance at Craigend, which I always assumed to be an old shaft, maybe for ventilating the lower level, which might have been accessed by the NS764906 adit. Only conjecture, unless someone wants to do some digging.....

Alan

Good info, cheers Alan. I'll add some of it to the list & amend some of the stuff already there.
What is the score with access to the mines? Doesn't look like there are too many houses nearby.

http://www.stirling.gov.uk/north_third_walks.pdf 

Likewise Murrayshall, since the quarry closed. The explosives magazine used to be quite close to the site of the adit, which was ok in the 1960s, but nowadays such things would be all CCTV, barbed wire and security guards.

Gillies Hill also ok, there are lots of footpaths, and easy access from Cambusbarron village.

The Cambusbarron adit is in the middle of a field, usually with cattle, and maybe 200 yards from a house or two. Probably ok.

Alan

Great, i'll take a look up there soon. Any other mining in the area with remains (both surface or underground) worth looking at?

Yes, lots of other stuff, both surface and underground, in the area. As far as I know, underground is limited to the several copper and silver mines in the Ochil Hills, and the best silver mines, in the Silver Glen, east of Alva, are mostly now securely gated. But it was very different in 1967. The Airthrey/Blairlogie/Menstrie area is freely accessible (with the exception of the Airthrey Hill Copper Mine), and there is Carnaughton Glen, just west of central Alva, allegedly a silver mine, although I think not, and a few more.

I will post something about these when I get time, and there eventually will be some photographs coming.

But for some considerable distance east, there are very many remains of coal and sometimes ironstone mining. No open adits that I know of (well, maybe one, near Airth, but I have not found it yet), and anyway I don't have breathing apparatus and would just as soon give coal mines a miss. But many of the oldest shafts are open, usually water-filled to within 30 feet or so of the surface, so nothing to explore.

I will hopefully be back with some more info soon.

Alan

I had a look around the area of the Cambusbarron adit a while ago and I don't think it's there any longer. Have you got a grid reference for the Blairlogie adit? I've spent the past two days searching for it and I've a feeling it's hidden behind thick gorse.

I've added Craigend to the Central Scotland MMR, are the pictures of Murrayshall actually of the open level at Craigend? :confused:

They certainly look like Craigend, but some I don't recognise, although I only visited the far reaches of the mine once. The only other place in the area the underground photos could possibly be is the Cambusbarron adit. It is very difficult to produce recognisable underground photos sometimes, as I know only too well!

But it gets more confusing. I have been doing more research. Murrayshall is on the south side of Gillies Hill, beyond all doubt, but the adit and limekilns near Hayford Mills, on the north side, is called Murrayshall Lime Works on some of the old maps. I guess that was named after the company. It is known that the Cambusbarron adit was the last to be worked, and the limekilns there, beside Hollandbush, are the newest.

But the entrance photo is definitely not Cambusbarron, which as I recall is rather small (more room inside though), but very definitely Craigend. So is the limekiln, in the main block of kilns at Craigend. There is another smaller block of kilns, possibly operated by a different company.

I will be in the area sometime in May/June and, weather permitting, will get photos and GPS coordinates (if I can get a signal below the trees) of all the entrances and suspected entrances.

I have been looking at the maps again, and see that the Cambusbarron adit is below 15 metres, while the base of the Cambusbarron quarry is above 75 metres, so I am thinking that the Cambusbarron adit is not in the limestone which lies immediately below the dolerite. The Murrayshall and Craigend (middle - open) adits are definitely immediately below the dolerite. So I now think they mined two distinct strata of limestone. But when I find the geology book, I may be able to explain that a bit more, as it depends on the positions of some of the faults. But it is odd that they did not go in just below Cambusbarron quarry.

I am a bit wary of entering the Craigend mine again. The pathetic little bit of barbed wire is no obstacle, but if I recall correctly it passes through a fault maybe 200 yards in, on the right fork, and at that point the roof was held up by a stone arch. The problem is that the stones on the right wall have all fallen out, leaving the roof arch and left wall. Even in 1967 we crept very carefully past that point! If I am not mistaken, one of the photos shows that the top of the arch has broken, and a slab of shale or maybe dolerite has sagged somewhat. And, the water is usually just over wellington boot depth, near the entrance (almost dry further in) due to a build up of debris at the entrance. But these things are a bit addictive, so I will take the hard hat and headlamp. But no crawling in the far reaches, I need to go on a diet first.

Alan

They certainly look like Craigend, but some I don't recognise, although I only visited the far reaches of the mine once. The only other place in the area the underground photos could possibly be is the Cambusbarron adit. It is very difficult to produce recognisable underground photos sometimes, as I know only too well!

But it gets more confusing. I have been doing more research. Murrayshall is on the south side of Gillies Hill, beyond all doubt, but the adit and limekilns near Hayford Mills, on the north side, is called Murrayshall Lime Works on some of the old maps. I guess that was named after the company. It is known that the Cambusbarron adit was the last to be worked, and the limekilns there, beside Hollandbush, are the newest.

But the entrance photo is definitely not Cambusbarron, which as I recall is rather small (more room inside though), but very definitely Craigend. So is the limekiln, in the main block of kilns at Craigend. There is another smaller block of kilns, possibly operated by a different company.

I will be in the area sometime in May/June and, weather permitting, will get photos and GPS coordinates (if I can get a signal below the trees) of all the entrances and suspected entrances.

I have been looking at the maps again, and see that the Cambusbarron adit is below 15 metres, while the base of the Cambusbarron quarry is above 75 metres, so I am thinking that the Cambusbarron adit is not in the limestone which lies immediately below the dolerite. The Murrayshall and Craigend (middle - open) adits are definitely immediately below the dolerite. So I now think they mined two distinct strata of limestone. But when I find the geology book, I may be able to explain that a bit more, as it depends on the positions of some of the faults. But it is odd that they did not go in just below Cambusbarron quarry.

I am a bit wary of entering the Craigend mine again. The pathetic little bit of barbed wire is no obstacle, but if I recall correctly it passes through a fault maybe 200 yards in, on the right fork, and at that point the roof was held up by a stone arch. The problem is that the stones on the right wall have all fallen out, leaving the roof arch and left wall. Even in 1967 we crept very carefully past that point! If I am not mistaken, one of the photos shows that the top of the arch has broken, and a slab of shale or maybe dolerite has sagged somewhat. And, the water is usually just over wellington boot depth, near the entrance (almost dry further in) due to a build up of debris at the entrance. But these things are a bit addictive, so I will take the hard hat and headlamp. But no crawling in the far reaches, I need to go on a diet first.

Alan

They certainly look like Craigend, but some I don't recognise, although I only visited the far reaches of the mine once. The only other place in the area the underground photos could possibly be is the Cambusbarron adit. It is very difficult to produce recognisable underground photos sometimes, as I know only too well!

But it gets more confusing. I have been doing more research. Murrayshall is on the south side of Gillies Hill, beyond all doubt, but the adit and limekilns near Hayford Mills, on the north side, is called Murrayshall Lime Works on some of the old maps. I guess that was named after the company. It is known that the Cambusbarron adit was the last to be worked, and the limekilns there, beside Hollandbush, are the newest.

But the entrance photo is definitely not Cambusbarron, which as I recall is rather small (more room inside though), but very definitely Craigend. So is the limekiln, in the main block of kilns at Craigend. There is another smaller block of kilns, possibly operated by a different company.

I will be in the area sometime in May/June and, weather permitting, will get photos and GPS coordinates (if I can get a signal below the trees) of all the entrances and suspected entrances.

I have been looking at the maps again, and see that the Cambusbarron adit is below 15 metres, while the base of the Cambusbarron quarry is above 75 metres, so I am thinking that the Cambusbarron adit is not in the limestone which lies immediately below the dolerite. The Murrayshall and Craigend (middle - open) adits are definitely immediately below the dolerite. So I now think they mined two distinct strata of limestone. But when I find the geology book, I may be able to explain that a bit more, as it depends on the positions of some of the faults. But it is odd that they did not go in just below Cambusbarron quarry.

I am a bit wary of entering the Craigend mine again. The pathetic little bit of barbed wire is no obstacle, but if I recall correctly it passes through a fault maybe 200 yards in, on the right fork, and at that point the roof was held up by a stone arch. The problem is that the stones on the right wall have all fallen out, leaving the roof arch and left wall. Even in 1967 we crept very carefully past that point! If I am not mistaken, one of the photos shows that the top of the arch has broken, and a slab of shale or maybe dolerite has sagged somewhat. And, the water is usually just over wellington boot depth, near the entrance (almost dry further in) due to a build up of debris at the entrance. But these things are a bit addictive, so I will take the hard hat and headlamp. But no crawling in the far reaches, I need to go on a diet first.

Alan

They certainly look like Craigend, but some I don't recognise, although I only visited the far reaches of the mine once. The only other place in the area the underground photos could possibly be is the Cambusbarron adit. It is very difficult to produce recognisable underground photos sometimes, as I know only too well!

But it gets more confusing. I have been doing more research. Murrayshall is on the south side of Gillies Hill, beyond all doubt, but the adit and limekilns near Hayford Mills, on the north side, is called Murrayshall Lime Works on some of the old maps. I guess that was named after the company. It is known that the Cambusbarron adit was the last to be worked, and the limekilns there, beside Hollandbush, are the newest.

But the entrance photo is definitely not Cambusbarron, which as I recall is rather small (more room inside though), but very definitely Craigend. So is the limekiln, in the main block of kilns at Craigend. There is another smaller block of kilns, possibly operated by a different company.

I will be in the area sometime in May/June and, weather permitting, will get photos and GPS coordinates (if I can get a signal below the trees) of all the entrances and suspected entrances.

I have been looking at the maps again, and see that the Cambusbarron adit is below 15 metres, while the base of the Cambusbarron quarry is above 75 metres, so I am thinking that the Cambusbarron adit is not in the limestone which lies immediately below the dolerite. The Murrayshall and Craigend (middle - open) adits are definitely immediately below the dolerite. So I now think they mined two distinct strata of limestone. But when I find the geology book, I may be able to explain that a bit more, as it depends on the positions of some of the faults. But it is odd that they did not go in just below Cambusbarron quarry.

I am a bit wary of entering the Craigend mine again. The pathetic little bit of barbed wire is no obstacle, but if I recall correctly it passes through a fault maybe 200 yards in, on the right fork, and at that point the roof was held up by a stone arch. The problem is that the stones on the right wall have all fallen out, leaving the roof arch and left wall. Even in 1967 we crept very carefully past that point! If I am not mistaken, one of the photos shows that the top of the arch has broken, and a slab of shale or maybe dolerite has sagged somewhat. And, the water is usually just over wellington boot depth, near the entrance (almost dry further in) due to a build up of debris at the entrance. But these things are a bit addictive, so I will take the hard hat and headlamp. But no crawling in the far reaches, I need to go on a diet first.

Alan

Maybe the Blairlogie adit should be discussed somewhere else on the site? But whatever, there are two open adits at Blairlogie. The first can be reached by following the east bank of the Blairlogie Burn upwards from the village (go through the gate on the old road at the base of the hill, and turn left up hill). From memory, about 300-400 yards, and it is above some scree (actually mostly mine waste) which extends down to the burn, before you reach the waterfall. NS827973 or thereabouts. This one contains several winzes, of about 3 metres, 15 metres, and more.

On the way up to this one there used to be a small trial adit on the left, unfortunately I caused it to collapse in 1965, all 3 feet of it, so I doubt that you will find any trace of it now. Amazing what a hammer and chisel, used too enthusiastically, can do, but the specimen I extracted was not very interesting. There were several more adits, you may be able to locate them below the waterfall.

The other is probably behind a gorse bush too, but is easy to find. If you look at the front of the hill from some distance away, you will see a large protruding lump of rock, with a large patch of scree to the left, and a smaller patch of scree to the right. Near the top of the patch of scree to the right, you will see some lighter-colour streaks, which are quartz and barytes waste from the mine, which is immediately above the scree, level with the top of the big lump of rock. NS838973 approximately. This is an easy one, 80 feet or so, by about 6 feet high. There is an upper level, and if you are a good rock climber, you may be able to get to it. I don't know anyone who has, and its depth remains unknown. This one locally used to be known as the Sailors Cave, but no-one knows why.

Alan

Apologies for multiple posts, my browser went mad and then crashed! Please delete duplicates if you can.

Alan

The Cambusbarron adit must be there, or water pressure would have serious consequences, as has happened elsewhere. Try NS775926, on the right as you walk south along the footpath (marked on the map at least) from Hayford Mills to Cambusbarron. It will not be more than 100 yards from the road.

On the best map that the OS will give on-line, it would seem, as far as I can tell, to be the source of the Raploch Burn.

But it may have become somewhat obscured, or have had a pipe, too small to crawl, fitted in the entrance.

I will check it myself when possible, as I know where it was. But if you go to old-maps.co.uk, search for Cambusbarron, and try map number 6, you will see that it even had a tramway, which led to the kilns, and a transfer siding by the main railway.

The route of the tramway was, as far as I can tell, re-laid as a standard gauge railway during WW2, and a level crossing and several covered wagons and a diesel shunter were to be seen at Hayford Mills, by then a government store, up to about 1960, although the wagons were just shunted across the road from time to time, the connection to the main railway having gone. Most odd.

Alan

Thanks for the location of the Blairlogie mines, I might check them and the Murrayshall adit this weekend as it appears the pictures in the Murrayshall album are from the Craigend adit. How long ago did you last check the Murrayshall adit Alan?

The real Murrayshall adit has been closed for maybe 80 to 100 years, if you mean the one actually at Murrayshall. But if you mean the one at Cambusbarron, i.e. Murrayshall Lime Works on the map, I gave it a glance in passing maybe 10 years ago, and it seemed normal, i.e. quite obscured, only visible as a small hole. I don't actually know if it has been explored since 1967.

It is roughly the same size as Craigend inside, with some deep and nasty holes in the floor. Don't know what they would have been for. But it does have running water, unfortunately.


Alan

Please, what's Whinstone?