grahami
17 years ago
Wow! Most interesting, I havn't seen this one before! You can just about see the water balance drumhouse, which still has it's roof on. In the absence of other pointers, or documentation all we can say is that it must have been taken between about 1889 and 1900, the 1889 25" OS doesn't show the mill at all, while the 1900 edition shows it complete!
The tip tramway and its bridge were only begun after agreement with the Votty company to tip over their original Hafodty tips (carefully avoiding tipping into the original quarry which was in use as a reservoir feeding the Votty mills).

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
ChrisP
  • ChrisP
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17 years ago
Interesting, in GrahamI's photo of 3/4 of the mill built, it seems a small section of the third quarter is a smithy or workshop- opposite the water wheel. It has a large slate chimney and a couple of smaller iron ones, suggesting a forge, and it would pre date the seperate workshop buildings.
grahami
17 years ago
"ChrisP" wrote:

Interesting, in GrahamI's photo of 3/4 of the mill built, it seems a small section of the third quarter is a smithy or workshop- opposite the water wheel. It has a large slate chimney and a couple of smaller iron ones, suggesting a forge, and it would pre date the seperate workshop buildings.



Of course it could also be a steam engine driving the mill, with the exhaust up the two smaller chimneys and the boiler towards the rear... but I don't know.

The "mark 1" connection was in existence by 1865, and was superceded by the "mark 2" between 1877 and 1889.

The Votty Tuxford Incline was working to DIffwys Floor 3 (it's final location) by 1912, allowing Votty to tip over their old tips, followed by Maenofferen at a higher level.

The workshops appear to have been built between 1924 and 1926, the main electrical building around 1909.

The "new" connection to the Rhiwbach tramway was made in 1930, using the reversing stub in the oild quarry.

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
merddinemrys
17 years ago
Had a look today and the tunnel from the Mk1 access is still there but dammed to a depth of about three feet just inside - somewhere to look on a drier day!

Also, the exit tramway (lower bridge) seems to run into a collapsed adit - does anybody know any more?
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
"merddinemrys" wrote:



Also, the exit tramway (lower bridge) seems to run into a collapsed adit - does anybody know any more?



I am not quite sure where you mean, are you referring to the Mark 3 (final) route? In which case, it came round the headland from Rb incline 2, under tip line bridge (where Rb 3 incline went up to left), straight across the canalised river, then turned left and followed the wall round which curved slightly to the right. Just beyond end of wall a trailing connection was made with a line coming downhill from the mills area. The line continued for a little way to form a reverseing neck and ended a little way into the open quarry pit. There was no buffer stop of any kind! Although I do remember they had a lockable stop block on the gradient coming down from the mill area.
merddinemrys
17 years ago
Perhaps what I saw was a reversing neck - it looked like a line running between two retaining walls towards what could have been a collapsed adit - directly off the bridge towards David Jones' Quarry.

Greaves seem to have restored the hole in the incline as well and something has been driving up and down there - to accomplish this they have tipped to make a road connection between the mills and the Rhiwbach Tramway just the Blaenau side of the two bridges - makes access a lot easier and safer than crossing the old bridge!
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
"merddinemrys" wrote:

Perhaps what I saw was a reversing neck - it looked like a line running between two retaining walls towards what could have been a collapsed adit - directly off the bridge towards David Jones' Quarry.



No, it didn't go into an adit (I think I know the one to which you refer though) after it went past the walls it curved to the right and headed for the open David Jones Quarry. I will see what I have in the way of a photo. Although it will be pre-35mm days so quality wont be up to much!
merddinemrys
17 years ago
That sounds about right. I can't find any pics on t'internet to illustrate what I mean. I can't believe I've missed the adit that went below the incline until now - its quite obvious where it is, although the land in front of it has been made up a bit in later years.

There was one hell of a rumbling noise coming from it though - must be the sound of the river - or the ghost of Skinner!
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
Isn't it always the way! Every photo I have of MO doesn't show what I want! This is the nearest.

🔗Maenofferen-Slate-Mine-Archive-Album-Image-057[linkphoto]Maenofferen-Slate-Mine-Archive-Album-Image-057[/linkphoto][/link]

It shows a train heading from the mils area. I cannot quite tell from the photo if it is on the reversing neck point Under roughly where the Simplex is, or still has to reach the point. If the latter is the case, the other line is hiding behind the heap of slte waste behind the driver's head.

I will endeavour to get a photo of the area when I am next there.
merddinemrys
17 years ago
"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

I will endeavour to get a photo of the area when I am next there.



You're not thinking of trespassing are you? :lol:

As I say, they've fixed the incline making access a whole lot easier if you approach from Rhiwbach - very thoughtful I think.
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
Well I have been going there, both with, and without Greaves (and their predecessor's) permission for something like 35 years, I see no reason to change now!
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
I have just noticed, in the Maen Offeren Company records from Company House that I noted down in 1978, that there is an item dated August 1930 that says "New connection to Rhiwbach Tramway". So that must be when the "mark 3" connection (ie the current bridge) was installed.

They had built an alternative route down to Blaenau, via Votty, in 1921 to avoid paying (what they classed as excessive) charges to the Rb Company for use of the relevent section of the RbT.
grahami
17 years ago
Yes - I found the final plans for the new route over the Votty & DC land, which was used from 1921-28 (contrary to folklore, which says it was never used) in the archives in December - they hold both the original plans and the final ones. Interesting. My tracings need a bit of redrawing and shrinking to make them scannable.

Graham
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
Which begs the quaestion, what happened between 1928 and August 1930?
grahami
17 years ago
Sorry, didn't make myself clear - I would imagine that they would either:
1. Continue to use the new route (3 inclines)
or
2. Revert to the old route (2 inclines), but plan for a better connection - "mark 3"

Graham
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
I assume MO were paying Votty for the use of the inclines, (just less than Rb wanted!). In which case I would assume once they owned the RbT they would want to use that ASAP so as to avoid paying anything!

Maybe as well a new connection was made as they possibly wanted to make better use of their own land in the vicinity of the Old Mills. A reversing neck would be easier to use than the shallow incline that formed "mark 2".
grahami
17 years ago
There was an important difference - MaenOfferen built and owned the inclines and tramways over Votty & DC land, for which they had a wayleave. I don't know the details, but would imagine it was a lot less than what Rhiwbach wanted - or it wouldn't have been worth MaenOfferen's while to build the new route. However, with both routes owned, the difference would come down to the difference in cost of working (hence my remark about number of inclines) and presumably not having to pay the wayleave.

Curiously (?) the plans of the new route don't show that part of it within MaenOfferen's own land - only that within Votty & Diffwys. I presume there must have been an internal MaenOfferen plan which showed the upper part - but it's not in the archives as far as I know, so the layout on MaenOfferen mill floor will have to remain a mystery.

Graham
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
Ah, yes, that does make sense! As you say, Votty must have wanted a lot less for their wayleave than using RbT!
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