stuey
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17 years ago
I wonder if Concord would have made a very good 19th cent mine but a crap 21st one.

I am totally convinced that tin is like oil. There will be no alternative to save the day, even if you are a true believer in the alternatives.... Anyway, time and perhaps not so much of it will see the UK tin come out. My curiosity is where is the next place to have a paying hole. Not if, when.

It's always an interesting debate. As I understand it, Botallack is a maybe, levant is dead, Geevor is a museum (for a while). Jane has no ore, Killifreth has lots of tin but would need to start from scratch. Redmoor is proven and has ore but is probably too small a scale at the mo. Concord is high grade but limited.

I wonder if the mining ethos of the present is perhaps a bit idealistic in their desire to stop big and recover well. I'm wondering if a return to slighly less big methods would give better returns for a mine like concord. My point being that it is of a limited extent (very) and so an investor may say, "well, setting the mine up like a northern colliery may not pay".

I see the bigger operations coming along first (like Geevor/Crofty) and then the price drive a lot of smaller, decentralised operations into action.

I'm convinced and looking forward to how it pans out.

I would say Cornwall/Devon has quite a mining future yet. (romance aside)
carnkie
17 years ago
I'm not sure why you say Jane has no ore. In 1986 ore reserves were nearly 3 million tonnes at 1% tin metal (pretty low), with economic grades of zinc and copper. Getting it out economically is another matter.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
stuey
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17 years ago
There is a thread on ME about the future of Cornish Mining and one of the Jane geo-chaps explained the situation there, romance aside.
gus horsley
17 years ago
Can anyone tell me why the Concord area was thought to be a good prospect for tin? I haven't seen any reports which state why the geological conditions are favourable. Cheers.
Gus
geoff
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17 years ago
I think there's a granite cusp in that area and a number of copper mines nearby came down onto tin.

The figures quoted by Northener showing a yield of 0.8% tin go against the claim of it being 'high grade', it would have been regarded as sufficiently interesting in the early 80's if they'd kept it small and tight and had a means of producing concentrate rather than selling bulk ore. The price isn't good enough right now for that.

There is a great danger of getting over excited when people talk about values encountered in tin mining, individual sample results are meaningless particularly when expressed without a sample width. The ultimate sample is the mined product going through the mill and seeing what you end up with to sell. It is also worth remembering that the same lodes worked by the old men producing 3 and 4% tin would produce around 1% after mechanised mining and dilution.
carnkie
17 years ago
"gus horsley" wrote:

Can anyone tell me why the Concord area was thought to be a good prospect for tin? I haven't seen any reports which state why the geological conditions are favourable. Cheers.



I see what you mean. Just been looking at the 1990 BGS map and there would appear to be little indication on that. I somehow suspect that you know far more about this than I do. 😉
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
spitfire
17 years ago
Expert is a word I seldom give to anyone; I have however no hesitation in applying that title to Geoff. You would all be far wiser in seeking his opinion on these matters rather than relying on what can be gleaned from the web; any prospectus or Puffs in the press
spitfire
stuey
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17 years ago
Wasn't Trounson the bloke who suggested that there had to be a granite cusp there, due to a very strong tin lode to the Aggies side of Concord? (and univestigated ground between there and aggies granite....

It was the one that was worked in a trench by one bloke.

I'm not sure what lies further out, but it might suggest that the lodes radiate away from this structure.

gus horsley
17 years ago
I can see that there might be a granite cusp in the area - suggestions of this are the presence of tin at Peevor for example. I suspect if there is a tin zone it may not be extensive in depth as there is an indication that the ore zones are telescoped, but I am guessing a bit.
Gus
stuey
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17 years ago
I thought that Aggies mines (in granite) were quite deep. Concord (IIRC) is quite shallow. You have copper mines each side of Concord (off the top of my head) suggesting that they have tin at depth, I think this is the case.

The snag is that there seem to be rogue lodes in the area which carry allsorts. Inc low temperature stuff.

If I recall correctly, there was a theme around that area, being that the future pointed towards going towards the granite. Both Coates, Concord.

If you haven't got it, Cornwall's future mines is a very good read.

I think that area is quite complicated geology wise, probably due to the presence of different aged granites. (I recall reading that Cligga and St Agnes were formed a fair time apart). If this is the case, the underlying granite could have caused some odd effects.

I'm sure that the major show in the Cligga area was a very rich tin lode.

What they actually mined after trounson is not recorded in any of my books.
scooptram
17 years ago
w/jane has a masive ore reserve but it also has a masive water intake aswell !
stuey
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17 years ago
"scooptram" wrote:

w/jane has a masive ore reserve but it also has a masive water intake aswell !



We had the "Is jane viable" discussion on ME and the answer was no.

I'd like to see jane open again. Purely for the lowering of the adjacent water table.

Mt Wellington would be interesting, as would Nangiles.

Big Ropes agogo.

According to rumour, people have recently been sniffing around tinworks which aren't S Crofty. No game given away though. I also think the hype has died down.
Roy Morton
17 years ago
I worked at Backwater school doing site investigations in the mid nineties. This was the site of Wheal Gimp aka The Gump.
and took up the whole site including the playing fields. The ngine Shaft was in Killas but fifty metres away we were trenching through decomposed granite, and this was a granite rather than an Elvan. it seems as if the whole area was subject to what you might call 'mini plutons'. I found the whole site very interesting. It's also worth reading Dines on that area especially the sections west of Concord. In one place 5 lodes appear in the space of 80 yds with two of them dipping the opposite way to the other three creating junctions all above adit level. Unfortunately nothing in the area is open to explore 😢
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stuey
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17 years ago
Rumour has it that Concord has been bought with a view to putting it into operation again.

I was at work and off task and discussing the world minerals shortage, the reopening of SC and then this guy started explaining that there was another which had been bought recently, he had wind that it was near Blackwater. I said I thought it was owned by a building society and was effectively out of the loop and he was adament that this was the case.

I thought it was being used as a builders yard. Which begs the question, if it is owned by a building soc, what are they doing there? Take the latter as fact.

Probably no truth in it, but this chap was pretty sure of the accuracy of the comment.

The ****** is that my temp contract has finished and I'm unlikely to see him again.
carnkie
17 years ago
It appears that it was owned by Concord Tin Mines, Ltd. (80%) & Legal & General Assurance (20%), since mid-1984. Don't know how up to date this is or vouch for the accuracy.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Jasonbirder
17 years ago
For all you romantics...isn't the price of Tin dropping sharply at the minute (and like to remain so in light of a looming world recession)
Knocker
17 years ago
No the price of tin is not dropping! The price is actually higer than when it was at its most expensive.

Sounds bizzare?

Tin is traded in Dollars, but will be mined in the UK in £ sterling. When the price was at $25,000 the Value of a pound was $2.20. The Price is now $22,000 and increasing, and the exchange rate is $1.87.

Therfore at its most expensive tin was £11,360, It is now £11,764.

Also I don't see much romance in the business of mining, its just makes very good economic sense, particularly in an area with an extrremely poor economy.
Jasonbirder
17 years ago
Quote:

it just makes very good economic sense, particularly in an area with an extrremely poor economy



Those two statements certainly don't go together...it either makes very good sense...or it doesn't the local economy has zero bearing on that (except in regards to labour costs)...and i would guess that it doesn't make huge economic sense to make a major capital investment in a start up operation at a time when borrowing is expensive and (in all possibility) prices are at an all time high and hence, likely to fall...
Knocker
17 years ago
If you economy is booming you could argue you do not need the revenue from a mining industry, in an area of poor employment, seasonal jobs and low wages that is far from the case. Crofty currently employ 50 people on more than the average Cornish wage, the great majority of the employees are locals - do we need it - boy do we! If you don't want it in your area, well fine.

The finance for mining operations does not come from traditional borrowing sources (i.e. banks) as it is too high risk for them. Instead the finance comes from mining finance houses, with investrs who understand the risks, but reap the rewards. In the current economic climate there is more money from these investment sources as investors look for somewhere else to invest money as opposed to conventional investments due to the very low returns. hence crofty have £85 million pounds of funding to finance reopening and Hemerdon $(Aus)150 Million.

No mining operation would base their business plan on the current exceptional prices, Croftys business plan is based on a tin price of £3000 per tonne, the extra is a bonus, hence a sustained fall in the price of tin would do the mine little harm, in fact a fall to around $18,000 per tonne would probably be welcomed to deter exploration elsewhere.
ferret
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17 years ago
"Knocker" wrote:

If you economy is booming you could argue you do not need the revenue from a mining industry, in an area of poor employment, seasonal jobs and low wages that is far from the case. Crofty currently employ 50 people on more than the average Cornish wage, the great majority of the employees are locals - do we need it - boy do we!



I totally agree and am all for a renewed Cornish tin industry on the proviso that better environmental safeguards are put in place to protect our wonderful county.
on that note old technology such as water power but utilised with modern materials are not a bad bet right now as they require less investment, are cheap upkeep together with often being a greener option and therefore more popular with locals and government alike.

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