Had a stroll around Masson on Sunday and the shallow lake in the 1779 chamber, as pictured here on a previous trip was absolutely bone dry. Does this happen often? I've never seen it without water before?

Photograph:

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Anyhow there is a little passage off to the left (looking back out as in the picture above) just by the steel that is propped against the chamber wall. This is usually pretty much or totally submerged but yesterday I entered and went a little way until the water was waist deep - a couple of steps - and took the photo below, however if I hadn't been with a party in only cotton overalls it looked like it might have been possible to wade through perhaps neck/chest deep and looked to continue around the corner. Anyone been in further?

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I think that leads to the show cave and has a grille at the far end to prevent access. I'm not familiar with the 1779 name, is this the passage with a wooden plank across a buddle?

Yes, I think we are talking about the same place. It marked on the Flindall & Hayes survey as 'natural chamber, discovered 1779'

As stated below this leads to the show cave. I do not know how often the water is low enough and when I went through 26 years ago it was certainly chest - neck deep. The surveys did not show a connection and so at the time it was fun to go through and make this "discovery", though it was known about or suspected by some at least. Beyond that I would say respect the grille as the owners are clearly aware that access can - occasionally - be gained by this route.

I walked over Masson by High Loft only yesterday. What I wrote about the “1779 chamber” has been overtaken by further research. I deal with it much better in my new book. Interested to read the comments here – I will put a reference to them in my book. Had heard of the flooded connection but never seen it in times of drought and I did not show it on our survey and ought to amend it for republication.
Wasn’t it here that Frank Brindley of Sheffield in 1961 claimed in a national Sunday newspaper how intrepid explorers broke through ‘a man-made stone wall … and found a huge cavern surrounding a lake. And it was there we saw these clear footprints’. These ‘claw-prints’ were one foot wide. The dreaded Matlock Monster! I trust that Ttxela did not encounter it.
Divers entered the lake in 1958 but stirred up too much silt to see anything.

What about the flooded stopes in the workings nearby? Had the water level gone down in them?

I am looking forward to the new book!
I now remember the Matlock Monster story from the 1960s and would imagine that the Masson tour guides made much of it. Fortunately I had forgotten about it as I negotiated deep water with, I recall, loose rocks and maybe sunken timbers on the floor.

Maybe Alex is the Matlock Monster.

I walked over Masson by High Loft only yesterday. What I wrote about the “1779 chamber” has been overtaken by further research. I deal with it much better in my new book. Interested to read the comments here – I will put a reference to them in my book.

When / where can we get a copy please 😉

Fascinating stuff, I rather wish I'd braved the cold water to venture further but that would have meant leaving my novice cotton clad companions behind.

My copy of HistoryTrogs survey does show a dotted line connection from the very end of the chamber to the showcave, I won't post an image of the survey here without his consent but the passage pictured above leads from closer to the beginning of the flooded section.

We didn't venture to look at the flooded stopes but levels in the shallow lake near the gate to the showcave appeared normalish.

My first thought was that something had shifted underneath the 1779 chamber and allowed the water to drain away - I don't know how realistic that is.

No sign of any monster footprints sadly!

It is fine by me to show the survey here and I am sure that Andy Hayes would not mind.

I will contact the PDMHS ed in the New Year to see if anything can be done to get the book out.

Interesting to speculate on why the different water levels in there fluctuate and particularly so as they area all way above the water table.
When I went through the connection one of my sons, then age 17, was in the party. On seeing the passage and being asked if he wanted to go through he said "neahh" but of course Dad, as he was a Dad, had to do it.

I've seen the chamber dry a couple of times in recent years, and have got down into the beginning of the connection passage but I've never seen it dry out. As mentioned, it's grilled at the far end in the show mine so please do not annoy the Heights by trying to get through!

As for the book, although the PDMHS Editor will have more free time in the near future following his retirement, our desktop publishing master is currently out of action so that may impact on possible publication dates. When it is getting near to print, I will advertise on here as we'll probably be taking advance orders as happened with Jim Rieuwerts' magnum opus.

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It is fine by me to show the survey here and I am sure that Andy Hayes would not mind.

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Thanks :flowers:

This is the bit in question;

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Where it says 'flooded connection' is not quite where I looked down, I was more to the side of the passage than at the end (if that makes sense)

I have been in there today inspecting for PICA. We went down to the lake only to find it is not there at the moment.
As said above, the connection is off to the right at the start of the chamber but you may well not see that when the water was up, as it obviously was when Roger did his survey.
We didn't try to go through to the grille as it is not part of our desired route but I reckon the water would be between knee and crutch deep at present.

Interesting, perhaps it's gone down further since Sunday then. I can confirm it was crotch deep within 3 steps and getting deeper!

We wouldn't have disturbed the showcave even if we had have braved looking a bit further, we were careful to be quiet when passing the gate further on, although I don't think the heights were open.

Who are PICA?

Peak Instructed Caving Association - it's the umbrella group for the local outdoor pursuits guys who do underground trips. Any mines they use for work purposes need to be inspected by a suitably qualified person, Les being that person!

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PICA are the peak instructed caving assoc. The grouping of all the Derbyshire outdoor instructors & centres.
Any mine that they wish to use for outdoor ed. groups must be inspected by a mining engineer and an approved route designated.
Same applies anywhere in the UK.
In Wales there is a similar organisation, other areas sort themselves out or do limited clubbing together to pay for the inspections.
Tomorrow is Ashford Marble, Holmebank and top end of Hillocks.

From memory, the gate is away from the immediate tourist route, not so sure about the flooded bit grille, that may be visible from the Masson chamber.

Small correction - PICA is the Peak Instructed Caving Affiliation, not Association.
I may not remember when our meetings are but I do remember who I am supposed to chair the meetings of!

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I don't fit in Derbyshire mines 😞

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That all makes sense.

I think the grille on the connection is clearly visible from the showcave if I remember correctly.

The gate is mostly hidden from showcave visitors although you can spot it if you are tall and know its there I think. I've been through it a couple of times when trips have been organised through the showcave access by PDMHS.