Mystery partially solved, I've found two references to the lead mine leading off the rear of Hodgkinsons Hotel's cellar.

(1) Extract from "History & Gazetteer of the Lead Mine Soughs of Derbyshire" by J. H. Rieuwerts (1987) page 91.

"(Hotel Mine Sough), 293.582.
Reconstituted tail in river retaining wall. The level extends through the cellar of Hodgekinson's Hotel and along a worked lead vein beyond. It was reputedly made to drain workings on Coal Pit Rake and was under construction in the 1780's. One reference states that the level was made in order to intersect the thermal water discharging via Wragg Sough but it was abandoned and 'Bath Sough' was driven instead."

(2) Extract from "A History of the Matlocks" by Peter Naylor 2003, Landmark Publishing Company. page 31

"The mines on the Heights of Abraham including Bacon Rake (Bacon is a local family name) were drained by soughs originally driven to drain Coal Pit Rake and other veins but extended later to seek the source of the warm water - possibly rising from the Bonsall Fault. These warm waters issue from Masson Hill in various places, both natural and artiificial. The easterly flow of some of this water was along Bacon Rake, later diverted by the Wragg Sough (Wragg is yet another local family name), possibly the earliest known sough in the Matlocks, now used by the Aquarium. A similar sough aimed toward the same source exits beneath the cellar of Hodgkinson's Hotel, Matlock Bath, and may date from 1686, it being abandoned when Bath Sough was completed."

I looked in "The Caverns and Mines of Matlock Bath 1 The Nestus Mines: RUTLAND and MASSON CAVERNS" by Roger Flindall and Andrew Hayes (1976) Moorland Publishing Company, but couldn't find any reference to it. However, this book is very useful to refer to regarding the mines of Matlock Bath. Incidently another name for Bacon Rake is The Great Rake.

Trust this bit of information helps.

Minerat - do you remember the large cave opening on top of Ball Eye mine on the Via Gellia? I think it was called the Hermitage wasn't it! The lane leading up to it from Cromford was the old way into Bonsall before miners blasted out the Clatterway in the 1700's and were rewarded with ale instead of money.

With regard to the workings behind Hodgkinsons, I was involved in a bit of digging there in the late 70's. The end was back filled with deads, which were shifted with a wheelbarrow, and stacked on one side nearer the entrance. I can't remember whether we hit a forefield or ran out of enthusiasm, but there was no indication of a draught, and certainly no sign of the fabled underground route to Bonsall. One of the puzzles was why something like that had been backfilled, and from where?
Aplogies for the lack of reliable memory. In mitigation I can only refer to the recent topic "the social consequences of mining", but for other aspects not covered in the official posts.

hi sougher. I remember me and my mate building a camp base one summer holiday in a large rock opening up there, we had a fire going, pinched a few eggs and boiled em in a tin yumyum. we were to go back later but my dad found I had nicked the eggs and made me do some work at the blokes house to pay for them. the next day we went to our camp a block of stone filled the floor...now thats lucky..thanks dad.remember going into ruggs hall with my old uncle (he used to work in the mines) I was running over this hillock when he grabbed me and went mad at me ..I was running straight in to the shaft just outside the entrance.
Used to spend a lot of time in masson quarry digging around. the guys who worked there knew my uncle and used to give me crystals from the diggings. once got left there when I went with some friends, they went off left me there, police and all relations looking for me, found me coming down the path from heights of abraham. ( I was only 5) they got some belt from their dads I can tell you. what stories,, havn`t even started yet. :lol:

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HI Boy engineer. The was always a story about a through trip from Dev mine through the wayboard clay levels to a mine just outside Bonsall, it seems possible been on that clay walk for quite a way till it got too scary for me, if that lot came in there is no way out or no way you could be found if you got squashed. didnt want to be found in 20.000 years as a fossil, I am already one.

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Agree about the fossil bit - you even look like one!!


:devil:

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you looking for a modification of you anatomy skippy, why arnt you at work lazy dog. how is the dog now is she beta

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Arrr. the stitches healed up well..

Nearly modified myself at the w/e - need to design a safe way of tunnelling through wet grot! Mini hydraulic ram, 18" pipe??

Thort you supposed to be workin too!

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eyam out of bounds due to the snow, not been 4 two weeks. first wk ill this wk snow, going stir crazy man, so much so ripped the bathroom ta bits, gota put all new bits in now,

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Did it!! Managed to get my body through a 15" diameter sewer pipe -damn tight though - shoulders get sortof folded on the way through and your head goes at a funny angle - wouldnt want too much water running through it at the same time either, but at least you can't really get stuck - you just need to be pulled out like a cork in a bottle... or pushed through with a long stick - which ever way you decide to go - the next size up is 18" and too big to be practicably carried down a mine I think..

Mr Mike might have to cut down on the beers though....

:smartass:

Hope the bathroom still working - have you got a dunny in the back yard or just crossing yer legs until its finished??

😉

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Just a thought on this thread. In 1970 I was in one of the Scordale mines near Appleby when the Pennine Fault slipped. The noise was absolutely horrendous and we were convinced the entrance had fallen in. A couple of days later it was reported in the press that the fault had slipped. Might be worth a call to BGS.

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There was a story (I heard it in the 1960's) about cavers emerging between the beer barrels in Hodginksons Hotel. This would have been possible via the sough tail but the story was somehow linked with Devonshire Cavern. If the story was true then the sough did reach Coalpit Rake. There is a discrepancy re. the depth of accessible workings in the Devonshire system and the level this soughs is at but there is the same problem re. Wragg Sough/Gildereye and the (perched) sump at the bottom of the Devonshire system. It always seems (and always has) that there is a lot we are not seeing in this system. This story and other stories of connections is intriguing and bearing in mind such a long history of mining in the area, I would not discount any of them.
The Speedwell system was always impressive - and loose -. I recall a blocked entrance (more than one?) on the walk from Cumberland Cavern, with a maze of right-angled passages in that area, accessible from within. Only saw this once ?disappeared? ?memory fade?

I did Devonshire a lot and we always had the same opinion that there was more to the bottom of those workings... I am still very keen on the place and it would be nice if new links could be established.... any detailed surveys on the bottom or old mapping around?

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http://www.peakcavemonitoring.org.uk/content/view/5/6/  There is a poor map her and the entrence marked is the blocked top one

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I have a survey for Cumberland / Wapping, I need to scan it and then will post it. Watch this space............

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There's a published high quality survey by John Barnatt and Dave Webb in the DCA's Cumberland Cavern and Wapping Mine audit - see http://www.thedca.org.uk/Publications/Cumberland.htm .

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John Barnatt undertook a very thorough survey of the Devonshire sytem a couple of years ago, with a very detailed, impressive result.
The system has changed over the years and my first Caves of Derbyshire (1960's) referred to "extensive roof falls - partly blocking the lower series" That area is still intriguing, still lots to discover.

Hello there, I am the new kid on the block. I have just joined the forum because I am so impressed with the knowledge of the Matlock area displayed by minerat, sougher, and others.
Incidentally, about the earlier postings on the sump at Devonshire Cavern, on checking my notes, it was dived by Andy Morrison with other members of the Masson Caving Group in 1999. It was then found to be only a blind water-filled chamber, some 20 feet long and 10 feet high. (Webb, Dave, 1999. Devonshire Caverns: the Lower Sump Dive. Caves & Caving, Winter 1999-2000. p6). This point is only a short distance from Gilderoy Old Sough but, when the blockage in that burst open in 1961, the release of its water did not affect the sump in Devonshire Cavern (Woodward, Maurice, 1961. The Matlock Thermal Springs: Further Investigations II. P.D.M.H.S. Bull. Vol. 1 No. 5).
However, I agree that there must be other workings additional to those shown on John Barnatt’s detailed survey, either backfilled or at a higher level near Gilderoy Shaft or further west.

Also I notice that sougher and iclok were asking about the workings under Hodgkinson’s Hotel – see Webb, Dave, 2002. Hodgkinsons Hotel Level Matlock Bath – A ‘Cave’ in a Pub. Derbyshire Caver No 115. pp2-3). This is just an insignificant 18th century vein working – actually on Gilderoy Vein but it does not get anywhere near Gilderoy Shaft on Devonshire Cavern. The Hotel was built in about 1772. It was known as Hotel Mine in the 19th century. There may be blocked levels lower down.
Hope that this is of some interest.

I was a "Sherpa" on Andy Morrison's dive in the Devonshire sump. Quite a disappointment - it seemed at first to "go" and then just ended. It is a perched sump and there is a considerable difference in altitude between this area, including what we know as the bottom of Guildereye Shaft, and the river level/water levels in the sough(s). It is this difference which raises critical questions regarding access, just where the workings were and even what form they took, as the Devonshire system shows little sign of vertical development. There is some evidence of another/other shaft(s) near Guildereye shaft (upwards) and some of choked workings below.
The sough tail in the river retaining wall near Hodgkinsons Hotel did connect with the workings there (according to a report I once read), even if it does not now. Of course, this sough, if that is what it is, is more than one storey of a building below the Hotel mine workings.
Still so intriguing!