These are the first of some trial photos. I'm hoping to get some better ones from different angles. Had a servo fail on me and I had to strap the camera up, was still able to pan though. The Land Rover was not mine, I walked up (mistake), saw some activity going on as the hillside has sprouted little yellow topped pieces of timber (must be a surface survey going on). National Trust also up there inspecting the building which appears to have been recently renovated to a degree. Mine shafts have new grills and fencing. Very twee.

Might get up there again today.

Interesting pictures, were they actually capping some 'open' uncapped shafts and holes. There fences weren't that good either.

What's wrong with walking? It's only a little hill 😉

Last time I was up there work was being done at the Dutchman mine, but I assume that was for the water supply.

Although National Trust (or whoever) have recently taken over Salt's Level and possibly Ecton Deep?

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Nice pics :)

Is that you?

🔗Ecton-Deep-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-004[linkphoto]Ecton-Deep-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-004[/linkphoto][/link]
🔗Ecton-Deep-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-007[linkphoto]Ecton-Deep-Copper-Mine-User-Album-Image-007[/linkphoto][/link]

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Thanks, I'm off in a few minutes, hopefully to get better ones.
Normally I don't baulk at walking but carrying gear can get a bit tedious especially when its difficult/delicate. It's one aspect of what I do that needs refining.

Yes that is me in red, that way I can find me and air brush me out!! I'm in white today 😎

These are the people who are now in control of all things Ecton
http://www.ectonhillfsa.org.uk/ 

There is also extensive work going on to the copper spired residence and its environs.

I'm off now, Peter.

Good to see that the shafts are getting better security, the main engine shaft just had some elderly wooden sleepers covering it until recently and some of the ones at Stone Quarry were open with just a barbed wire fence round them. Looks like the counterbalance shaft has had a new cap too, and nice to see the engine house has had its roof fettled - have they done any work on the retaining wall of the horse gin walk?

There is indeed a survey going on at the moment and if I'm not mistaken that land rover belongs to one of the survey team...

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There is also extensive work going on to the copper spired residence and its environs.

I'm off now, Peter.

The Folly (it's never before been a residence) is being converted into one by a private individual, with nothing to do with the shower who control the rest of Ecton.
Part of the North end of the hill (including the Engine House) was up for sale, last I heard, the "for sale board" being at Apes Tor.

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The Folly (it's never before been a residence) is being converted into one by a private individual, with nothing to do with the shower who control the rest of Ecton.
Part of the North end of the hill (including the Engine House) was up for sale, last I heard, the "for sale board" being at Apes Tor.

Yes I was aware of that I've just being speaking to the lady that owns it. She would like me to possibly take some photos once all the scaffolding is down.

The For Sale sign is still there with Sold on. I think English Heritage/National Trust may be involved. The survey is, or at least one is, to do with the wild flowers, there being a particularly rare cowslip lurking around the shaft areas.

Anyway flying cut short by the most unexpected of events, in fact I'm totally gob smacked by it and I'll share it with you all for interest reasons as you will see.

Driving up the back of Ecton after having spoken to the lady at the folly, I met a pedestrian who I thought looked like a likely candidate to find out a bit more about access. I stopped and wound the passenger window down and asked if the gentleman was from around these parts. Sort of came the reply, looking at him I thought I know you. It was the most alarming experience as his face suddenly seemed to fall into place. It had been 37 years since I was last with him for he was the Best Man at my wedding!!

So for the last few hours we have been reminiscing about all manner of things. But more importantly as far this forum is concerned it turns out that Jimmy was on the original design team that worked on the tunnelling for Dinorwig Power Station. He does very little tunnelling these days and spends his time looking after things water under contract to Severn Trent. One of the last trips we did together underground was beneath us, Clayton level. Oh well there'll be more days to fly.

Incredible. BTW you'll be forgiven for wondering why we lost touch with each other. Well his job took him overseas (in one case a copper mine in Iran) as did mine and neither of us are very good with conventional means of correspondence. There weren't the same instant communication channels then as there are today and it just happened.

Peter

Blimey, that's an incredible coincidence Peter :thumbsup:

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Quite an afternoon eh!
As regards access to the underground bits, to all intents & purposes there isn't any, thanks to the afore mentioned shower - I'm being very polite here. Posting how I & others really feel could potentialy leave the website open to legal action!
As to surface access I beleive it's mostly open without problems, with the usual common sense provisos.
Easyist way up on foot, is to turn left just before Olivers place (the Folly) & follow the old pit road past the powder house, to the engine house.
From the back either the old pit road to Waterbank, or the path from Tommys farm to Waterbank. On occasion Tommy's let us take a verhicle up his fields to the wall adjoining Waterbank when we've been working up there, but probably best not to make a habit of it!
Just had a look on the OS map, Tommys is Broad Ecton farm BTW.

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Yes it was incredible and quite an afternoon, certainly one to remember.

Re access to Ecton. My purpose is solely concerned with above ground access. More specifically to safely fly a very large kite with payload. I have been asked to evaluate (indirectly) the possibility of taking images of the surface remains. In order to do this successfully I need a certain degree of access depending on the wind direction. This factor decides (wind direction) at what height I am likely to have to fly in order to get reasonable shots. Legally my height limit is 200 feet AGL. Sadly I can use this up in just getting the kite up and out of standing waves to 'clean airflow' caused by the ground topography and the camera hasn't even left the ground. If this is evident at the time I survey then I have to go through a flight permit process with the CAA. In itself quite painless but does prolong events and of course requires communication procedures on the flying days.

Interestingly about 5 minutes after the photos I took of Ecton were taken, I heard the distinctive drone of a C130 Hercules
Transport making its way up the side of the Manifold at less than 500 feet AGL, whatever the pilot may say, heading towards the Roaches. FIR traffic these days relies more and more on GPS headings to get around. This is causing problems especially to those who hang/paraglide and use gliders.

I can provide a very environmentally service for those wanting low level aerial photographs provided they are not in a rush. The alternatives are very noisy gas guzzling aircraft/helicopters that disturb the environment and are usually cost prohibitive to academic/research bodies.

So I consider that as I'm giving my services free of charge at the moment, vehicular access up an already used farm road is the very least that can be afforded to me and my equipment.

As for underground access to Ecton. If someone takes charge of the workings by whatever means, then they call the shots as to access. At the end of the day if there were to be a mishap for whatever reason and an unauthorised person/s were injured or killed then it would be they that would be held responsible. I know such talk can be held as an excuse to prohibit free access but it is the first rule of basis risk assessment. If people can't get in, then they can't be hurt. In the future it may be different only time will tell. I'm not fussed anyway I can remember a time when Ecton was open most of the time and we used to go down just for the hell of it and scare the living daylights out of ourselves.

I hope the field centre takes off and it becomes a useful educational resource.

Peter.

To get into the mines at Ecton you need one of the trust's approved guides present. I know two people who are approved and I'm trying to arrange a visit for ANMHS members via one of them - watch this space

As Toadstone has said, they've been given ownership of the underground workings and so it's their say as to what happens with them. Bear in mind that the ownership of Ecton was dropped onto an organisation which didn't have the understanding of how to manage what they'd been given at the outset, but they've been working closely with people that do know about managing old mines to try and get the trust and the centre running in the way Geoff Cox wanted, and as a byline it will hopefully allow reasonable access to the interested mine explorer.

I don't think slating the trust in a public forum helps that at all, and has the potential to prejudice them against the likes of us - I don't want to see the situation where the only access is for schools parties to wander along Salts level, look down the shaft and wander back again, with Deep Level and Clayton being completely off-limits. Nothing I've seen of what the trust is doing (and I've been into both Ecton and Clayton in the last 6 months) suggest to me there's anything drastically wrong in what they're doing, so I would suggest that if people really want to criticise the way Ecton is now being run, they should say what they think is being done wrong rather than just being rude about the trust.

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The situation with Ecton Mines runs completely against the spirit of all Derbyshire agreements and I think most right thinking Peak based explorers acknowledge that...just read the entry in the last COPD!
Absolutely ridiculous...but i guess (like the situation with the Alderley Edge Mines) thats what happens when Mine Explorers rather than cavers get involved in access agreeements! 😉

The situation with Ecton Mines runs completely against the spirit of all Derbyshire agreements and I think most right thinking Peak based explorers acknowledge that...just read the entry in the last COPD!
Absolutely ridiculous...but i guess (like the situation with the Alderley Edge Mines) thats what happens when Mine Explorers rather than cavers get involved in access agreeements! 😉

Odd that mine people would get involved with a mine rather than cavers, isn't it? ::)

I guess the nub of this is that certain mines may be owned by; or have access controlled by a specific person or group. That person or group can, of course, impose whatever restrictions they want on people who wish to visit their property.

That's the way it is. It may not be the same as some other agreements in Derbyshire and you may consider it to be 'absolutely ridiculous' - but then it's not your mine and it's up for the person who owns it to do what they want with it

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yes..easy to laugh...but look at the Mines in the Peak caving clubs have negotiated access agreements with...
Rowter James hall Maskhill Oxlow Nickergrove Merlins Knotlow Hillocks Water Icicle Tearsall pipe Caverns masson etc etc...
have a free access agreement or just a £1 to the farmer...no restrictions no limitations....
And the ones mining organisations are involved with..Alderley Edge..Oxclose..Magpie...Ecton...etc etc

No access or only limited to guided tours...

I know who i'd rather leave in charge!

yes..easy to laugh...but look at the Mines in the Peak caving clubs have negotiated access agreements with...
Rowter James hall Maskhill Oxlow Nickergrove Merlins Knotlow Hillocks Water Icicle Tearsall pipe Caverns masson etc etc...
have a free access agreement or just a £1 to the farmer...no restrictions no limitations....
And the ones mining organisations are involved with..Alderley Edge..Oxclose..Magpie...Ecton...etc etc

No access or only limited to guided tours...

I know who i'd rather leave in charge!

I rather think you're talking through your bottom (god I denied myself there!) if it wasn't for the Derbyshire Caving Club who control access to Alderley(the clue is in the caving bit of the name), all entrances would still be sealed either by blasting or backfilling on a massive scale. The DCCs hard work & tact over many years is the sole reason that these mines are accesable at all.
(EDIT Due to senior moment I quoted the wrong post from JB - it was supposed to be the one about mine explorers controling acess to Ecton & Alderley-sorry)

As for Ecton there is no access for anyone unless invited by the trustees who seem to be made up of ex coal board pen pushers with no interest in mine exploration & no knowledge of hard rock mining.
Regardless of logic, goodwill or the application of common decency, I don't see anyone influencing who the trust do, or don't allow in.

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yes..easy to laugh...but look at the Mines in the Peak caving clubs have negotiated access agreements with...
Rowter James hall Maskhill Oxlow Nickergrove Merlins Knotlow Hillocks Water Icicle Tearsall pipe Caverns masson etc etc...
have a free access agreement or just a £1 to the farmer...no restrictions no limitations....
And the ones mining organisations are involved with..Alderley Edge..Oxclose..Magpie...Ecton...etc etc

No access or only limited to guided tours...

I know who i'd rather leave in charge!

OK, let's have a look at the situation with these ones you've cited as having access arrangements mishandled by mining groups.

Alderley Edge, where the bulk of the land is owned by the National Trust has access controlled by the Derbyshire Caving Club, so that's hardly a mining organisation for starters. Also, if you trouble to look on their website, for details of accessing the mines , they state "However, the National Trust impose certain conditions regarding leaders who must be DCC members". So, here the owner has allowed DCC to control access, but on condition one of their members accompanies the visiting party. Accompanies, not guides - there is a difference.

At Magpie mine PDMHS rent the surface remains from the Chatsworth Estate, who retain ownership of the mines and as far as I'm aware do not wish them to be generally accessible. I also understand that the fishermen on the Wye (who pay a lot more money for the fishing then we ever do in trespass fees) have issues with the silt that gets disturbed when you go up Magpie Sough, and following an incident involving the water bailiff and a group of explorers, the sough was gridded up as it is now. The last two times it's been opened for visiting are due to PDMHS negotiating with Chatsworth.

Oxclose I can't comment on as I don't know what the access situation is there, and Ecton, as I've previously said just requires a Trust-approved leader and signing of a disclaimer form. As for your comment about the access arrangements running counter to the spirit of other agreements, why should any owner be bound by such a perceived thing? We do not have a god-given right to go into any hole we like whenever we like, and to carry on as if we do is frankly childish, IMO - if we can't persuade the owner otherwise, we either abide by their wishes or go pirating and risk the consequences, which may include permanent sealing of a mine.

Now, are you seriously suggesting that the DCA or any other caving group would have been able to negotiate open access to these, given the owner's wishes? I seriously doubt it would be any different, regardless of who did the negotiation. It's also interesting to note that the mines you cite above as having had open access negotiated by caving clubs aren't either in sensitive locations or of major historical /archaeological importance, so is it any surprise that it's been possible to get liberal access agreements? I might also cite the case of Youd's level - PDMHS have the access control for that and it's no trouble to get in there.

Here's a challenge, let's see your caving groups who are so much better at getting access agreements than the mine societies negotiate one with the farmer who owns the land that Beans & Bacon mine is on....

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It would appear that my innocent post has unwittingly opened a can of worms. To be honest it saddens me to see such suppressed anger about something for those who are upset, can do little about. Indeed it really isn't anything to do with them what the owners/custodians of such features do with the mines.

As for free access, there is no such thing. It has been pointed out by others that there are always restrictions or conditions. I see no point in pursuing something you can't change anyway.

Specifically Ecton - AR has explained that those that "inherited" Ecton are seeking advice from recognized authoritative agencies. As I said originally, only time will tell if this will be successful.

As for 'the spirit of all Derbyshire agreements', Ecton is in Staffordshire or it was the last time I was there.

Peter.

I would in no way advocate totaly free access for the whole of the system. Ecton is a very special place, the history of which undoubtably goes back to the bronze age as witnessed by Nellie Kirkhams work & much remains to be done on this.
Wether the current trust are willing or capable of overseeing this remains to be seen.

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There's ongoing work both above and below ground at Ecton, which will assist with the preservation and understanding of the remains. I think access will get better through time as the trust settle in better and come to appreciate the sort of things mine explorers want to do - a bit of diplomacy and patience is the best way forward, I'd say, and with a bit of luck we may see Waterbank reopened and Chadwick-Clayton through trips allowed.

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Waterbank should be safe but still needs ginging removing from the shaft bottom to make the sough comfortable (ish) We spent considerable time repairing this shaft (& several others) while the truss was being set-up.
Re-opening Chadwick is a bit more involved as the truss have had the lid welded shut.

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