Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
My mistake Graigfawr,i was thinking of Thomas Martyn Mining at Blaentillery.

This is getting like the Thomas Crown Affair,lol.
Graigfawr
10 years ago
http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?14,61209  (note that the 45,000 t/hr mentioned in the first post was corrected down-thread to 4,500 t/hr)
Coggy
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10 years ago
I would think twice about investing in a new coal mining venture, there is a group - Divest Coal Campaign, supported by our 'Energy' minister and the Guardian reading labour luvvies;
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/17/ed-davey-backs-fossil-fuel-divestment-very-risky-coal 
that is being used to pressure investors into stopping any investments in companies that mine, distribute or consume coal. It isn't the Tories killing off UK coal minining, its the greens and the socialists.
if eight out of ten cats all prefer Whiskas
Do the other two prefer Lesley Judd ?
Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
And the ironey of Ed Davy is that he supports fracking.
ChrisJC
10 years ago
"Aditaddict" wrote:

There are millions upon millions of tons of it everywhere , most ex miners cant understand why their pits were closed , with the reserves they still had
Pits were political pawns it would seem , next it will be hospitals



It's nothing to do with politics. It's to do with capitalism. Why would I buy coal from the colliery down the road when I can get it cheaper from abroad?

It's the same for everything.

If you want to bring politics into it, the difference is that the Tories recognise what is happening, whereas Labour will just borrow and subsidise until the country goes bankrupt. They did it in the 70's under James Callaghan, and 'Prudence' nearly did it again.
The pain for the miners will be there either way.

Chris.
Jimbo
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10 years ago
Well said Chris! :thumbsup:

Don't the figures show that Labour closed the most pits in the 60/70s and then did little to help their 'brothers' during their recent 10 plus year stint in power!
"PDHMS, WMRG, DCC, Welsh Mines Society, Northern Mines Research Group, Nenthead Mines Society and General Forum Gobshite!"
davetidza
10 years ago
The coal industry started its decline around 1910 when Fisher, the First Lord of the Admiralty, and Winston Churchill, decided that all new warships should be oil-fired. The rapid take up of the same measure by civilian vessels saw around a 30% decline in the production of Welsh coal over the next two decades.

The next nail in the coffin of the coal industry was the introduction of electrical distribution. This meant that many industries, in particular the textile industry, could replace their inefficient and costly coal-fired steam systems, with much more efficient electric motors. A centralized system of electricity production in coal-fired power stations is far more efficient, and reduced the demand for coal. The gradual replacement of gas lighting by electric lamps also reduced the demand for coal.

Then came the great smog of 1952 and the passing of the Clean Air Acts. The largely removed the market for domestic coal.

We then decided, some years after most other countries, to replace steam trains by diesels and electrics. Another market gone.

In the 1960s we found gas in the North Sea. The market for town gas, produced from coal, disappeared in a very short time.

If you have no markets for coal it is not surprising that pits close!! This particularly applies to British pits where the takes are so disorganized, the coal is not of a very good quality (all the best coal was taken by the Victorians and Edwardians), and (due to our high land and property prices) the costs of subsidence are so high.

The final nail has been the introduction over the last couple of decades of bigger, faster and cheaper shipping, which has led to the lowering of the world price of coal.

We have arrived at a situation where even our open-cast coal has difficulty competing in the market place (see the bankruptcy of Scottish Coal, for an example).

The great shame is that when it finally dawned on politicians that the decline was inevitable, a (say 25-year) plan to manage the disappearance of the coal industry wasn't put in place.
staffordshirechina
10 years ago
Sadly, Dave has it about right. 1913, if I remember my lectures correctly, was the zenith of coal production in the UK, it's been downhill all the way since.
Despite all the enthusiasm on this forum for 'the good old days', very few would have endured the lifestyle of the working miner.
During the 1980's, the Staffordshire small mines had great difficulty recruiting men with enough stamina and mindset to work the old fashioned way and nowadays from conversations with Mines Rescue workers from Kellingley, the remaining collieries have recruiting problems too, even though the money is very good. Tesco is cleaner and you don't work shifts.
Times move on, we all need to re-train as call centre operators......


Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
Just a few point`s to add to Dave`s post above,

The 30% reduction mentioned in Welsh coal would have been in the Dry Steam variety,although a good percentage of that would have found sales in the domestic market.

The reduction in sales of Dry Steam coal for steam boilers is a difficult one to work out in the face of an increase in building coal fired power stations and the same with Gas lighting which was replaced by another method of burning coal.

In fact the 1952 smog and clean air act gave way for major development in Anthracite Collieries in South Wales,this and Dry Steam the only fuels allowed to burn in these Smokeless zones.
Coggy
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10 years ago
Longannet is closing at the end of 2015. Ratcliffe will have to close by 2019. Didcot by 2020.
I'm looking at buying a petrol driven generator, Honda do a good one that will keep our lights and the oven working.
if eight out of ten cats all prefer Whiskas
Do the other two prefer Lesley Judd ?
davetidza
10 years ago
Might I suggest that this is the way that things are going. Part of a European-wide grid to stabilize electrical supply across of western Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32067675 
AR
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10 years ago
"Coggy" wrote:

I would think twice about investing in a new coal mining venture, there is a group - Divest Coal Campaign, supported by our 'Energy' minister and the Guardian reading labour luvvies;
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/17/ed-davey-backs-fossil-fuel-divestment-very-risky-coal 
that is being used to pressure investors into stopping any investments in companies that mine, distribute or consume coal. It isn't the Tories killing off UK coal minining, its the greens and the socialists.



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/22/guardian_oil_reserves_will_soon_be_worth_nothing_a_bit_like_their_stock_tips_really/ 

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Morlock
10 years ago
"Coggy" wrote:

I'm looking at buying a petrol driven generator, Honda do a good one that will keep our lights and the oven working.



Give serious consideration to a diesel unit.
ttxela
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10 years ago
"staffordshirechina" wrote:

Sadly, Dave has it about right. 1913, if I remember my lectures correctly, was the zenith of coal production in the UK, it's been downhill all the way since.
Despite all the enthusiasm on this forum for 'the good old days', very few would have endured the lifestyle of the working miner.
During the 1980's, the Staffordshire small mines had great difficulty recruiting men with enough stamina and mindset to work the old fashioned way and nowadays from conversations with Mines Rescue workers from Kellingley, the remaining collieries have recruiting problems too, even though the money is very good. Tesco is cleaner and you don't work shifts.
Times move on, we all need to re-train as call centre operators......




I spent a good 3 minutes or so with a pick in Morse's level and whilst it was fun for those 3 minutes I can see why Tesco might be an attractive alternative after a while....
Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
Out of interest Les,
How many Smallmines were there in Staffordshire in the 80`s?
A butty of mine went to work in a Smallmine near Newcastle under Lyme for a while.

Strange you mention the difficulty in recruiting men to the Smallmines in that period,that was`nt the case in South Wales.
Peter Burgess
10 years ago
Until about 3 years ago, I worked in IT with an ex collier who worked in Murton Pit until the 1980s. He thought I was a raving loonie wanting to spend my spare time underground.
staffordshirechina
10 years ago
Ty Gwyn,
There was about a dozen. Enough to have their own NUM branch and NACODS branch.
At the mine where I worked we had a couple of Welsh deputies come and try their hand but it was too far from home and the cost of digs made it uneconomic.
We had any number of ex-NCB colliers come to work as the big pits closed but very few lasted long. Many of them walked out before snap-time muttering "sod that"!
Buckhill
10 years ago
Know exactly what you mean - 25 years ago I had two lads asking me to "get them a start", ex-NCB "colliers" who reckoned if I could do it they'd do better. One full shift, 36cwts between them (windy pick in 14 inch) - next morning they were asking me to take them home after an hour - told them to sit outside in sun till lowse.

Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
I had to laugh at both your comments,i`ve also seen the ex NCB boy`s coming looking for work,very few stuck it,they were far to big to turn around in most Smallmines,lol.

But saying that,the majority of Smallmine Colliers were Ex NCB men who had the stamina and mind set.
Buckhill
10 years ago
Talking of the mindset - about 10 yrs ago I brought my Silver 3 out one night for a bit of maintenance. One of the younger lads, being a bit protective of this oldie, wanted to take it off me saying "You want to be careful, remember you've had a heart attack" whereupon the 17 year old apprentice says "You've had a heart attack and you still come flogging here? I'd have played on it if I was you and never worked again". His supervisor cut in "Aye, that's the difference between him and thee - he'll work, you won't!"

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