tedraz
  • tedraz
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12 years ago
Hi. I am desperate for help regarding Mexborough pit at Selston in Notts, in particular the way the coal was transported to the cromford canal at Jacksdale wharf.
Any information at all would be helpful ie dates of operation, any written or printed material or the holy grail...photos or sketches.
This whole area is quite vague. Who owned the pit from when to when?
Closure date, land records...anything please!
Does anyone have a ny record of the VB coffee pot loco that worked there?
Please help.
Regards to all
Ted.
JR
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12 years ago
ICLOK is probably your best bet on things both railway and 'oop north,well Derbyshire way anyhow. He'll probably be along soon unless he's out of the country again. (He maintains it's on business but I reckon it's for tax purposes). :lol:
sleep is a caffeine deficiency.
LeeW
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12 years ago
Ted,

The Mexborough Pits were split in to a Top Pit and Bottom Pit (probably later). The pit(s) was one of the Butterley Company's. Not sure about when the pit started but probably 1850s, the bottom pit is possibly later at 1870/1880s. The colliery appears to have been finished c1894.

Coal was transported via a tramway/railway branch to the Portland Tramway (junction at Ashes Farm) which went via the incline at Jacksdale alongside Wagstaff Lane to the wharf. The cutting at Top Mexborough is still there (or part of it) - I will post my photos from April

There are some new plaques around Selston along the line of Portland Tramway.

At some time I will get around to finishing off my Portland Tramway walk report (about 90% done - just the Jacksdale part to have a look at) which I started a few months ago.

There should be someone on here who may have further info about the loco and transport system etc.
I went in a mine once.... it was dark and scary..... full of weirdos


When do I get my soapbox, I need to rant on about some b***cks
LeeW
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12 years ago
"JR" wrote:

ICLOK is probably your best bet on things both railway and 'oop north,well Derbyshire way anyhow. He'll probably be along soon unless he's out of the country again. (He maintains it's on business but I reckon it's for tax purposes). :lol:



He's around somewhere, probably lurking around in the dark taking photos and trying to stop from being arrested 😮
Not sure which site he's gonna do next though!

I hope you aren't suggesting that Selston is in Derbys
I went in a mine once.... it was dark and scary..... full of weirdos


When do I get my soapbox, I need to rant on about some b***cks
tedraz
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12 years ago
Thanks, i have a sneaking suspition who he is!!
The top cutting is almost on my doorstep BTW !
ICLOK
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12 years ago
Well thanks for the intro guys!!! :lol: .... The theory is that coal was taken from Portland Pits and Mexbro Pits to the sidings at the top of the Butterley incline at Jacksdale from where it was transhipped to the standard gauge wagons (shunted by the coffee pot engines) which were then lowered down the incline to Portland Wharf for transhipment to barges, however the line continued past the wharf onto Codnor Park Ironworks and the Western section of the Butterley Co Raliway. There was a winding engine house (known as the Drumhouse) which worked the incline which runs down the side of what is known as Flagstaff lane passing under it at the bottom. The lines to the Mexborough and Portland Pits were Plateways (see detail below). I have started a map of the routes which will be finished in due course, here is the unfinished map. (Butterley Rly West of Jacksdale is fully mapped and I will post later).

As for dates of line closure this is sketchy as based on the pit closure dates and maps I believe the route was definately out of use and lifted East of Portland Wharf by 1898 as it does not appear on the 1:2500 maps of that year.

🔗Personal-Album-856-Image-80514[linkphoto]Personal-Album-856-Image-80514[/linkphoto][/link]

The locos were 0-4-0Ts built by the Butterley Co themselves and I believe there were 3 known as Florence Ethel & Tiny! They had wooden underframes and inside cylinders plus big domes hence "coffee pot". Build and scrapping dates are unknown.

The Tramway/Waggonway/Plateway is recorded as being stone blocks (setts/padstones) carrying 3ft long Fish Bellied Edge Rails of a design I believe to be similar to those used on the Pinxton and Mansfield Railway, it was generally horse drawn. We know the construction as sections of rail and setts have survived (I have a rail).

The coal itself was more than likely carried in containers which were carried on a wagon frame (on the tramway and the railway) that could literally be lifted by Crane straight onto barges... an early form of containerisation! :thumbup: We know this method was certainly in use on the Little Eaton and Denby and probably on the Codnor Park Wharfs of the Cromford Canal.

My understanding is that Mexborough Upper was known as that and the lower one was known as Bog and Wink Pit as against Mexborough lower, what is known is that the coal was lowered down from Top to the Bog and Wink Sidings by use of a "Jig" or self acting incline and weighed at the bottom on a weighbridge.

The coffee pot engines are recorded as being used at Butterley Works which would make the track gauge 4'8.5" (std gauge).

I recently found out that the line is probably that know as the Portland Railway enacted in 1825 by Parliament (same year as the Cromford & High Peak)
Hope that helps. :thumbsup:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
tedraz
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12 years ago
Thanks for that info, but as usual it raises as many questions as it answes!
I always though, as did many others, that the "coffee pot" loco was a vertical boilered engine. There is much verbal testamony to the same. The only thing i can think of is that the high domed tank engines camr later. The argument against this could be the comparitively short working life of the Mexborough branch of the tramway.
There sketch on the board at the top of Wagstaff lane, shows a Vertical Boilered loco, although i don't beleive this is the correct one.
Butterley are known to have manufactured VB locos (4 or 5 i think.)
What are your thoughts?
ICLOK
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12 years ago
Ted you are of course right re the coffee pot locomotives, I had them mixed up with the tank engines having had a proper look at my notes this morning... It was rather late when I replied :flowers: . According to my notes there were 6 Coffee Pots all built 1860-70, known details are 0-4-0, they were geared (ratio 3:1) with 4" cylinders. There has been some suggestion that the 0-4-0ST rebuilds of 1896 to 1910 might be rebuilds of the coffee pots or of the 3 0-4-0s mentioned last night. There just happen to be 6! They were numbered B5C, B6C, B7C, B8C, B11C (Bessie) & B12C.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
tedraz
  • tedraz
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12 years ago
Hi, once again thanks.
I dont suppose you know of any sketches ,drawings or history of what happened to the VB engines ultimately?
I have good reason to keep digging....
I'll tell you when we meet, as we surely will !
I want to fill in all of the gaps from Ashes Farm to Mexborough. ie, the route and exactly where it crosses the two roads etc.
Also as you may have gathered, i'm getting a bit obsessed with the coffee pot loco. I still don't know who built it. Some say Butterley and others Chaplins at Chesterfield.
Re-reading 'Riden' and Butterley Brick' as we speak..
tedraz
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12 years ago
By the way, do you know when any of the Mexboroughs were sunk?
ICLOK
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12 years ago
"tedraz" wrote:

Hi, once again thanks.
I dont suppose you know of any sketches ,drawings or history of what happened to the VB engines ultimately?
I have good reason to keep digging....
I'll tell you when we meet, as we surely will !
I want to fill in all of the gaps from Ashes Farm to Mexborough. ie, the route and exactly where it crosses the two roads etc.
Also as you may have gathered, i'm getting a bit obsessed with the coffee pot loco. I still don't know who built it. Some say Butterley and others Chaplins at Chesterfield.
Re-reading 'Riden' and Butterley Brick' as we speak..



I know of a Chaplin engine works known for VB locos at Glasgow.... Lowes British Steam Loco Builders def says Butterley Built on the coffee pots.

I will cut and paste you a few maps re actual running lines and where they went.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
LeeW
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12 years ago
This link may help on the route of the Mexboro branch to Ashes Farm tramway. It's put on to a map with various other routes in the area.

http://binged.it/UjezZ7 


I may have a better overlay of the route with the modern maps somewhere, I will try and dig it out.


I went in a mine once.... it was dark and scary..... full of weirdos


When do I get my soapbox, I need to rant on about some b***cks
tedraz
  • tedraz
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12 years ago
Tamarmole
12 years ago
The following volume may be of interest:

Abbot R.A.S, (1989), Vertical boiler locomotives and railmotors built in Great Britain, Oakwood Press.

There are a few paragraphs about the Butterley VB locos; making reference to six VB locos. There is also an illustration (line drawing) (fig 8 in the book) and a note that the original drawing is held in the Derby County Record Office at Matlock
tedraz
  • tedraz
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12 years ago
Many thanks, but I have that book. I have seen the drawing but it does not shed any light on which one was at Selston!
I'll keep plodding on.
🙂
ICLOK
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12 years ago
Any chance of a scan of the sketch please
🙂 :flowers:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
ICLOK
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12 years ago
"LeeW" wrote:

This link may help on the route of the Mexboro branch to Ashes Farm tramway. It's put on to a map with various other routes in the area.

http://binged.it/UjezZ7 


I may have a better overlay of the route with the modern maps somewhere, I will try and dig it out.



Quick map of whats left at Selston thats visible

🔗Butterley-Company-Railway-Maps-Image-80520[linkphoto]Butterley-Company-Railway-Maps-Image-80520[/linkphoto][/link]


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
Tamarmole
12 years ago
"ICLOK" wrote:

Any chance of a scan of the sketch please
🙂 :flowers:



I'd love to oblige - unfortunately due to my luddite tendencies I don't have access to a scanner.
ICLOK
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12 years ago
Excellent :lol:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
tedraz
  • tedraz
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12 years ago
Again thanks for the map but it still leans toward the Portland branch.
Is the Thursday night session still active at the welfare?
ICLOK did you mean a scan of the VB loco sketch?

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