the sea weed could have been bleached by the sun (we have had a hot spell) if it is above the high water mark you see that all over the place as for the dolphin i dont think the outfall has anythting to do with it there would be dead fish floating all over the place

I would also add that it might be an idea to have a look at Dines/Hamilton Jenkin to see if there is much geological information about the minerology of the area. Off the top of my head, it's not a big one for sulphides (and usual associated arsenic) although I may be wrong. There are mines in the area, but again, they flow some pretty sediment free stuff gradually like all mines.

Clearly, if you have a big blow out of freshish new mine water like Wheal Jane, it's a different matter indeed. I think a lot of the stuff regarding Jane was the variety and solubility, as well as the size of the insoluble stuff, plus where it ended up, which wasn't in the periodically rough sea. It's not the sort of stuff which would get sedimented "like that" off Newlyn.

I'll have a read of my mining/geology books later and see what I can find about what "stuff" is kicking around.

I wouldn't even bother sampling it, unless there is considerable deposition from the rotting of sulphide lodes kicking around.

NB:- I am a bearded chemist.

NNB:- There may be data from marine tin drillings from back in the day about the PPMs of "stuff" in the sediment.

As to pumping consent, I suppose only a Freedom of Info. request might answer that

I'm a bit late to this thread, but if any site has a discharge consent it will be on the EA's Public Register. This can be done online at:

http://www2.environment-agency.gov.uk/epr/ 

or you used to be able to check at at the local area office. (Not sure what the case is with this now).

I doubt the white sediment is arsenic and it seems that the topic has been addressed well in this thread.

I agree that it's a waste of time you sampling them. Samples would need to demonstrate "chain of continuity", if this were to lead to legal action a formal tripartite sample would need to be taken to be admissable (Illegal dischrges are a criminal offence and therefore need to be proven beyond reasonable doubt)

For info I was an analytical chemist, particularly on environmental issues (contaminated land and mines included) and I have a beard!

Hi Scooptram - the weed was only bleached in the pool being flooded with adit water, which is in intertidal zone. Neighbouring pools were fine. Take your point about the fishes though...

Stuey, thanks, I think they've got Hamilton Jenkin in Penzance Library. The Marina company got in touch with me today, said the EA were already involved and have invited me to tour the site. Unofficial samples are not admissible evidence in court. May your beard flourish!

Wyn, thanks for link - shame you're not more local, you could come and check out the site with me. I haven't got a beard, but my eyebrows are getting quite bushy!

low O2 in the discharge water?

Yeah, could well be a factor I s'pose. Should know more after talking to EA and MDL. Cheers.

has anyone considered that the water being discharged is fresh, ie not salt, water and the dying of the flora and fauna in the rockpools could be due to the increased flow of this and the lack of the naturally salt environment ?........just a thought!

---

It is 'fresh' water, but if seaweed can't survive in it, why was it growing happily in the adit stream until recently, and why would everything be bleached out?

The point of samples would be to give some indication to the official agencies to come and take their own. Also you could pass them to independent experts should you feel none are being taken, they may not be admissable in court, but any negative result shown to official bodies could put pressure on the discharge to be monitored. Several of us here (me for instance) I suspect have access to Conductivity and pH meters (and possibly more eqpt).


I guess you just want assurance the discharge is safe, not affecting the wildlife and being monitored.

Speaking from experience when a member of the public complains about a quarry discharge, the EA usually pay a visit and meet up with the company's concerned Environmental person.

Looking at the video , the discharge water is turbulent so some oxygen should be getting into the water to some degree, unless it is ladened with bugs or salts / minerals with a high oxygen demand.

---

If stuff is dying and being bleached, I'd look at the pH for starters and then probably go the horrible-organics route afterwards and then after that look for nasty inorganic stuff (which will probably be insoluble and not affect "stuff").

It will be interesting to know.

It has been dry for ages, so it's possible that "stuff" got concentrated and for whatever reason has now passed a critical point.

I worked at Penlee Quarry when it was owned by Penryn Granite , I am also a very keen mineral collector . Arsenopryrite was fairly common in parts of the quarry . I would not expect too many problems from this mineral, as I believe it is fairly stable ?. but perhaps the very large amount of ANFO exlosives used , might be worth looking into ?? , Ammonium Nitrate fuel oil ?? , bearing in mind this was a "closed" enviroment until the quarry flooded.

---

Dolcoathguy: I have heard from the EA and they say they are regularly testing in 6 locations around the quarry and have found nothing wrong. They are talking about parts per BILLION! However, I have asked for a detailed breakdown of the results, and await their response. If you or anyone is interested in sampling the water, I'd like to cooperate on that. In your experience, would you say the EA are doing a good job? Yes, my main concern was that the water was not toxic to any level that could harm wildlife/humans/food chain etc..

Stuey: Your point about the water getting concentrated makes alot of sense, bearing in mind the 'drought'.

Mikebee62: Explosives- I was wondering if the heat of blasting might have converted any chemical compounds into more potent forms. I'll mention this to the EA, and publish their report, if they ever give me it... Thanks to everyone for their input on this.

If they are referring to levels of Arsenic, ppb would not surprise me as most Arsenic salts are not very soluble or they tend to react to form insoluble salts, on the other hand drinking water with 100's of ppb of Arsenic has been seen to give health problems. As this is discharging to sea, the risks are minimal.
The EA usually are on the ball, so it would have to be with good reason to doubt their results. One reason to test the water independently would have been to persuade the EA to do their own tests, if they are already doing so and disclosing results hopefully this will answer your concerns.
There are 2 issues really: Are their dangerous levels of Arsenic in the water? Is there something that is killing off marine life near to the adit outlet ?
If possible you need to gather evidence (photos) to send to the EA (and maybe CWF) to show there is an effect on nearby marine life.
For interest, if you are able to get a sample of the white deposit (which is unlikely to be Arsenic), I might be able to do a crude analyses on it (ie Elements etc) assuming the EA haven't laredy done this.
However from the video it looked like it was on a rather dangerous outcrop of rock.

I guess if there is a problem here which later has consequences and the EA don't discover it or ignore it they would be in big trouble later, so they have nothing to gain by hushing anything up or ignoring it.

---

I had an absolute nightmare case of athlete's foot a while ago (bloody walking boots) and I found walking around in minewater with a fair H2SO4 load, as well as arsenic and soluble copper sorted it right out! (in wellies)

The very next day it was as if I had a new set of feet!

The very next day it was as if I had a new set of feet!

Good grief, so now you are a quadruped?

---

I've heard back from MDL, (development company) and they are suggesting I meet their Proffesor Walton at the site for interview. :smartass: If anyone would like to come along and join the discussion, you're very welcome. Please let me know. They suggest 2 or 3 May. Two extra people would probably be the max.