tiger99
9 years ago
I have seen very cold days, with no wind at all, steam from factories going straight up. In fact it is quite common. At the same time there was up to 10" of snow on the ground not far away, and because the sun was very low in the sky the output from solar would have been very low. Such conditions are common in winter. The biggest buffoon who advocated solar and wind wad Mr. Salmond. Well, I suppose the hot air uttered in the Scottish Parliament is worth a few hundred watts.

WE need nuclear, long and short term, as it will work regardless of weather. Right now we need coal. How are we coping with several major coal fired plants closing, and no replacements?

But instead we will, after several bleak and miserable winters and possibly more than one government falling, have cheap, nasty gas fired generating plants and fracking, rushed in as emergency measures, once the winter death toll reaches a few hundreds of thousands.

The coal fired plants will not be mothballed in case of emergency. They will be destroyed as soon as they close, lest someone at a later date fires them up to deal with an emergency and thereby exposes the incompetence and deceit of government, and worse, the civil service.

And because private industry will never fund it, and governments, who know it is necessary are too scared to be seen to fund it, the fast breeder reactor, which can actually burn up long lived nuclear waste and convert it into lighter elements with much shorter half lives, thereby making inroads into the currently stored but valuable partly used nuclear fuel, will never happen. And, the thorium cycle has its uses, but that will never happen in the west. India has far too much thorium in places where it is a menace, like certain beaches. They at least will introduce the thorium cycle into serious sized powerplants.

We don't have leaders any more, just spineless idiots and malignant parasites.
Roy Morton
9 years ago
Battery storage is a pretty inefficient way of using power, but at present, there are no other really viable storage mediums available. The carbon footprint and residual waste from manufacturing, and eventually, decommissioning of any battery is far greater than any saving in emissions from gas.
Carbon capture may be expensive, but it would provide breathing space until other technologies develop to a point at which we can realistically shut down 'dirty' power stations.
Most of this is castles in the air at present, so I guess it's nuclear all the way; like it or lump it. 😞
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
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lozz
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9 years ago
As I type, wind turbines are supplying 18.48% of the load demand in the UK, the demand is low this time of night, never the less 18.48% is wot it is and that's just the metered supply to the grid, add on another 1 to 2 gigs for the local DNO's wind turbine input and actually it's not doing too bad, that's a useful chunk of carbon emissions reduction for power generation, wot's not to like.

Demand is forecast to go up and up...by how much? Meantime I've ditched my 60 watt filament bulb that ran for 16 odd hours per KWH and replaced it with an 8 odd watt led bulb which gives out the same amount of light for 177 odd hours per KWH...brill, other technologies for reducing the demand on the grid are available and if fully implemented would work quite well.

Some folks don't like wind turbines, why?...'cos they just don't like them...Often they don't like mobile phone masts either but hey ho they'll probably phone and complain using their mobile phones, internet connection or anything else that uses power that the greedy selfish sods use...get over it and grow up is wot I say.

Deep mining here has had it, it's had it for a long time in the main, the writing was on the wall many moons ago, being an ex miner I find it sad but that's the way of the world.

My tip is make the bed yer wanna lay down in. EDIT: And paddle yer own canoe....present rant over.

Lozz.
Coggy
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9 years ago
Good news (for companies that make diesel generators);
The government are paying subsidies of £250m to companies that will build 650 megawatt diesel generators to plug the gap between closing coal fired stations and renewable sources.
if eight out of ten cats all prefer Whiskas
Do the other two prefer Lesley Judd ?
exspelio
9 years ago
Good news indeed, if there were any British companies capable, I suspect this is likely to go overseas to those countries whose governments have not crippled their manufacturing industries...

You know, those countries where British MP's have a private vested interest---?
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Andy Mears
9 years ago
On the boiler efficiency front a modern boiler claiming 94% efficiency will be 94% NET efficiency when operating in condensing mode.
NET efficiency is percentage of net calorific value (about 10% of the energy in the fuel is used to overcome the latent heat of vaporisation of the water produced by the combustion of the gas) The net calorific value is the value left after this, so the gross efficiency is 94% of 90% i.e. 84.6%. Older boilers usually quoted the more honest Gross efficiency. Also when the boiler is not running in condensing mode the efficiency will be a lot less.
If when looking at the flue terminal at 90 degrees you can see a gap of clear air between the flue terminal and the plume of water vapour (which often occurs after the boiler has been firing for a while) then it isn't running in condensing mode.
Boiler salesmen are rather good at comparing the net efficiency of their product with the gross efficiency of the existing system to make the energy savings look better than they really are.
ttxela
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9 years ago
"Coggy" wrote:

Good news (for companies that make diesel generators);
The government are paying subsidies of £250m to companies that will build 650 megawatt diesel generators to plug the gap between closing coal fired stations and renewable sources.



What does a 650mw diesel generator look like? Presumably a bank of many smaller engines in a big shed?

Even this big old girl could only manage about 81mw mind you, doesn't look like it's turbo! * actually it is turbo!

http://gcaptain.com/emma-maersk-engine/#.Vnf2xU3nl9A 

I'm picturing massive plumes of diesel smoke over a warehouse near the Thames estuary when the adverts come on in Coronation Street 😮
crickleymal
9 years ago
"Andy Mears" wrote:

On the boiler efficiency front a modern boiler claiming 94% efficiency will be 94% NET efficiency when operating in condensing mode.
NET efficiency is percentage of net calorific value (about 10% of the energy in the fuel is used to overcome the latent heat of vaporisation of the water produced by the combustion of the gas) The net calorific value is the value left after this, so the gross efficiency is 94% of 90% i.e. 84.6%. Older boilers usually quoted the more honest Gross efficiency. Also when the boiler is not running in condensing mode the efficiency will be a lot less.
If when looking at the flue terminal at 90 degrees you can see a gap of clear air between the flue terminal and the plume of water vapour (which often occurs after the boiler has been firing for a while) then it isn't running in condensing mode.
Boiler salesmen are rather good at comparing the net efficiency of their product with the gross efficiency of the existing system to make the energy savings look better than they really are.



Of course they are. I worked for Potterton Boilers back in the 80s when condensing boilers were just making an appearance so my knowledge may be a bit out of date. However (he said leaping in) IIRC condensing boiler flow temperature has got to be around 60C for condensing (recovering latent heat of vapourisation) to occur. Non condensing boilers run at 80-85C so don't condense. If you run at the lower temperature you need larger radiators to get the same heat output. I bet that is something the salesmen don't tell you when you want to replace your boiler.
Malc.
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Morlock
9 years ago
"ttxela" wrote:



What does a 650mw diesel generator look like? Presumably a bank of many smaller engines in a big shed?

Even this big old girl could only manage about 81mw mind you, doesn't look like it's turbo!



I'm picturing massive plumes of diesel smoke over a warehouse near the Thames estuary when the adverts come on in Coronation Street :o



The place I worked at had seven 2.51 MW engine running on heavy fuel oil and nothing green survived for about 1/4 mile downwind!

Hope the modern units are cleaner.
J25GTi
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9 years ago
"crickleymal" wrote:

"Andy Mears" wrote:

On the boiler efficiency front a modern boiler claiming 94% efficiency will be 94% NET efficiency when operating in condensing mode.
NET efficiency is percentage of net calorific value (about 10% of the energy in the fuel is used to overcome the latent heat of vaporisation of the water produced by the combustion of the gas) The net calorific value is the value left after this, so the gross efficiency is 94% of 90% i.e. 84.6%. Older boilers usually quoted the more honest Gross efficiency. Also when the boiler is not running in condensing mode the efficiency will be a lot less.
If when looking at the flue terminal at 90 degrees you can see a gap of clear air between the flue terminal and the plume of water vapour (which often occurs after the boiler has been firing for a while) then it isn't running in condensing mode.
Boiler salesmen are rather good at comparing the net efficiency of their product with the gross efficiency of the existing system to make the energy savings look better than they really are.



Of course they are. I worked for Potterton Boilers back in the 80s when condensing boilers were just making an appearance so my knowledge may be a bit out of date. However (he said leaping in) IIRC condensing boiler flow temperature has got to be around 60C for condensing (recovering latent heat of vapourisation) to occur. Non condensing boilers run at 80-85C so don't condense. If you run at the lower temperature you need larger radiators to get the same heat output. I bet that is something the salesmen don't tell you when you want to replace your boiler.



How many sales men know what a delta-t calculation is though?! I have had this conversation with many gas engineers who c ant get their head around the concept of a condensing boiler not saving energy unless you upsize your radiators to take into account the lower lthw flow temperature.

I do a lot of work with low grade heat recovery to meet. "Green" targets, and the coils on the air handling units are. 3x the size for the. LGHW as opposed to the LTHW. In theory a good idea, but by the time you have ran your 21kw pumps, installed sodding g reat heating coils into your air handling units, modified and added to your control system and piped it. All up, there is no saving to be had.

We now spend a lot of time removing the heat recovery systems as running 2x 21kw pump sets costs a lot in electricity and weare now been "green" by removing them... :blink:
Coggy
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9 years ago
Maybe I missed off a decimal point 😉
if eight out of ten cats all prefer Whiskas
Do the other two prefer Lesley Judd ?
JJGalois
9 years ago
this is so sad, we'll always remember...
Buckhill
9 years ago
"John Lawson" wrote:

It is very disappointing end to one of the great industries of our country.
Unfortunately once they closed our local opencast pits I knew it was just a matter of time.
I had always, naively thought, that we should always be able to work coal opencast and compete with anyone in the world.
It seemed to me all you had to do was dig it out and load it into coal wagons to be taken away, but clearly there must be hidden costs there, which forced the closure of all of the Nith valley strip mines.



Possible new life for one of them though - Buccleuch and 2020 Renewables have put forward an application to create a 400MW hydro scheme using pumped storage at the Glenmuckloch site. This is four times the output proposed for the scheme in July.
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