grahami
14 years ago
Aaaaaargh! Apologies....... ๐Ÿ˜‰
Old age and dry rot methinks...

Not enough Brandy and ginger biscuits!

Cheers

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
grahami
14 years ago
Ok. To add to Tootles post. Here is a map of Walkden Yard and one of Mosley Common Colliery surface.

Enjoy.

๐Ÿ”—Personal-Album-54-Image-66671[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-66671[/linkphoto][/link] Walkden Yard
๐Ÿ”—Personal-Album-54-Image-66672[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-66672[/linkphoto][/link] Mosley COmmon

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
ttxela
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12 years ago
๐Ÿ˜  Was in Worsley last weekend and had no idea what was there until I read a pamphlet in the hotel ๐Ÿ˜ž Sadly I didn't get a chance to have a look at the Delph. Is the starvationer still there?
Pluto
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12 years ago
If you want to see how the transhipment work, these are a couple of illustrations from the Polish Mining Museum in Zabrze which had a system based on Worsley. As the Prussians were in control then, everything was recorded.
You will have to look at them on my Flickr pages as I can't get the image download to work here.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8467/8121490132_59512f8a9f_z.jpg 
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8045/8121490280_4932abd198_z.jpg 
Roger the Cat
12 years ago
Good stuff. The second picture looks like something out of a 20th century Vorticist painting. Using horse carts to bring the kibbles to the wharf seems to show that some of the chambers were very large. I'm also intrigued by the incline which suggests that the canal was below the working levels, which I suppose must have been true of Worsley in the earlier years.
Ty Gwyn
12 years ago
Surely the canal would have been driven at the lowest part of the seam,taking advantage of the pitch in the seam.
Vanoord
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12 years ago
"Ty Gwyn" wrote:

Surely the canal would have been driven at the lowest part of the seam,taking advantage of the pitch in the seam.



Assuming that there was a canal connection to the outside world, I'd imagine the water level of that section would be determined by the water level of the canal that was being connected to?
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
Roger the Cat
12 years ago
Vanoord, the datum must inevitably have been the level of the Bridgewater Canal at the Delft basin. If my memory serves me correctly there was an upper and a lower canal. The lowest canal connected with Delft. There were locks within the system and on the incline between the upper and lower canals. What arrangements were made for water supply and darinage I don't know. Was there an adit level below the level of the canal?
Aditaddict
12 years ago
As a young lad i used to play in the passages and adits of the wet earth colliery my father told me about them when i was about 12 he said they were roman sandstone mines LoL we used to go in them with burning paper there were beehive shafts as i recall (Capped) and in one passage you could walk into an area where there was no air ! You walked up it and then suddenly you could not breath , turn around and go back a bit and the air was there . many years later these passages were explored even further and cleared out by mining buffs , trips were organised for school kids brownie and cubs etc but then health and safety got involved and they are now all gated up , there is also Brindley's inverted syphon which is on the other side of the river
This guy knows quite alot about the wet earth complex and mining in general around Lancashire
unfortunatly Dave now suffers from claustrophobia and can no longer go underground , but his mining pages make really good reading

http://daveweb.co.uk/ 
Ty Gwyn
12 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:

"Ty Gwyn" wrote:

Surely the canal would have been driven at the lowest part of the seam,taking advantage of the pitch in the seam.



Assuming that there was a canal connection to the outside world, I'd imagine the water level of that section would be determined by the water level of the canal that was being connected to?



Exactly,take advantage of the pitch of the seam,and work the coal to the rise,no pumping.
ttxela
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12 years ago
"Pluto" wrote:

If you want to see how the transhipment work, these are a couple of illustrations from the Polish Mining Museum in Zabrze which had a system based on Worsley. As the Prussians were in control then, everything was recorded.
You will have to look at them on my Flickr pages as I can't get the image download to work here.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8467/8121490132_59512f8a9f_z.jpg 
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8045/8121490280_4932abd198_z.jpg 



Excellent, thank you :thumbup:
grahami
12 years ago
As far as I recall from the descriptions, (I havn't the book in with me) side canals were driven out along the seams where they intersected the "main" canal levels, and the coal worked to both rise and dip, obviously taking care that there was a barrier between the dip working and the side canal branch!

I think the extract from the 6in plan I posted shows some of these.

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
toadstone
12 years ago
"ttxela" wrote:

>:( Was in Worsley last weekend and had no idea what was there until I read a pamphlet in the hotel ๐Ÿ˜ž Sadly I didn't get a chance to have a look at the Delph. Is the starvationer still there?



If you care to look my previous post, on page 2 I think, you'll see I've done some screen grabs from GStreetview. The last one, although not clear, you can just see the starvationer in the ivy against the wall. I took some photos many years ago and I haven't been back for awhile but it was still there.

Peter.
Tootles
12 years ago
"Roger the Cat" wrote:

Vanoord, the datum must inevitably have been the level of the Bridgewater Canal at the Delft basin. If my memory serves me correctly there was an upper and a lower canal. The lowest canal connected with Delft. There were locks within the system and on the incline between the upper and lower canals. What arrangements were made for water supply and drainage I don't know. Was there an adit level below the level of the canal?



The canal came much later then the mine. The first adit was driven into Worsley Basin, (the site of an old quarry), to drain the mines at that level. In effect, the Worsley Basin level is the 'top' canal, with the others being constructed at much lower levels, (except, I must add, the short 'jump' of the inclined plane from the main level), in order to fetch the hewn coal to the winding shafts, from which it was then transshipped into the larger boats. These shafts were constructed in an ovoid shape, so that the deep, and smaller, boats, could be lifted out for repair. When the canal use finished, some of these shafts were fitted with overhead fans, such as at Ellenbrook, and Plantation Avenue, to ventilate the much lower levels being worked at that time. One must remember that the coal seams in this area were 'rippled', so much so that in places seams were being worked on the vertical, whist a mile a way, the same seam was horizontal.
It was only when it was realised that such huge amounts of water were being let away into Worsley Brook, that the idea of the canal at that level was born. Hence, the Worsley outlet governs the Bridgewater Canal's whole coarse, from Worsley to Manchester, then on to Runcorn, because of coarse the canal is lock free for its entire main line length.
Roger the Cat
12 years ago
Thanks Tootles for you explanation. I had assumed that the early workings would have been relatively shallow and it seems logical that the canal must have acted as a natural adit for a period in its history. The Bridgewater canal is well known as a contour canal and thus no locks.

However you say that the Worsley Basin canal is the โ€˜topโ€™ canal. Therefore the lower canals would not have been naturally drained unless there was a lower adit, or were they pumped, or have I got it wrong?

Tootles
12 years ago
I think, Roger, that it is very hard to imagine the original topography of the area in the early to mid 1700's now, as so much has changed. 'Upper' Worsley, ie: the land above the tunnel outlets, sits on a bluff of sorts, with the land rising steadily for about five miles towards Farnworth. Many early adits were driven from the original workings out to low lying areas, streams, and valleys in the local, and beyond, some of which were put to later uses.
Worsley itself sits on a limestone ridge, which ends shortly after the village, looking West. If you stand near to the A road leading towards the M60, and look out towards Boothstown, the land has dropped over 20' as far as the eye can see, mainly due to mine subsidence, and the draining of Chat Moss in the early part of the last century. Quite a panic ensued during the 1960's, because the main line of the canal was also sinking, along with the the surrounding land, and so the banks were raised using pit shale, brought by boat from Mossley Common pit. However, this of coarse raised the water level, depths of over 28' being recorded in places. It was then realised that the banks couldn't take that pressure of water, and so an emergency programme of filling the canal with watered down pit shale was started. Hundreds of thousands of tons of this was 'sprayed' onto the canal, between Leigh and Worsley, using adapted boats fitted with pumps and huge fire monitors, borrowed from Liverpool docks. (There is a photo somewhere depicting this, I will try and find it).
After some five years work, the canal was stabilised, and the land stopped dropping.
It is not known how many coal workings, or adits, were constructed in the area, however, a short walk along the canal towards Boothstown, past the crane and it's stop planks, brings one to a view of a submerged arch, now just the top of which is still showing. That at one time was another mine-canal outlet, before the land fell away. Opposite, and on the tow path side, there are the remains of the original canal line to Irlam, about half a mile was constructed before the project was abandoned. A strange twist to this is that the area was (is)? still known as Botany Bay, because it was dug by sentenced petty criminals awaiting transportation from Liverpool to Australia.
As I said earlier, the land to the East and North East rises towards Walkden and Farnworth. This of coarse makes the underground system much deeper as it progresses into the hillside. Above the basin, and seen from the path that leads into Worsley Woods, is the large reservoir which once fed all the industry that sprang up around The Dukes estates, including Brindley's 'Water Crane'. Now mostly silted up, it was quite deep at one period.
Of coarse your correct about the pumping. Steam pumps were employed as the seams grew deeper, however, such was the high quality of the coal being won, that the cost of installing pumps was fully justified. When Ashton Fields Pit closed in the seventies, (I think), pumping finally stopped, and there was some concern as the waters underground rose, that pollutants would be exited into the canal itself. The old boat entrances were bricked up, (as if that could stop the water), but then it was found that all the old, unused and unknown adits were back in their original use, some now under local houses, and so the brickwork was removed. As it was, no pollutants were found.
Another panic ensued when it was suggested that large quantities of coal gas, or methane, might be pushed up with the water, but the Worsley pits had always been pretty gas free, and so that silliness soon ended.
As a footnote to this, (please excuse the rambling), Fletchers Canal at Swinton, (the link from the Manchester Bolton and Bury Canal to Wet Earth Pit), there was a short section, (about half a mile), of canal tunnel built into the hill at Swinton. The idea was to link into The Dukes underground system above the inclined plain, but this project was also abandoned. During the construction of the M62 in the 70s, large amounts of material were removed from Wet Earth to form motorway bankings. This area has now filled in with water, and is known as Swinton Marinas. During the excavations, a short section of underground canal was discovered, along with two 'deep' boats, well preserved. I don't know what happened to them. Also, it is recorded that in 1912, a farmer was leading his horse and cart across a field near to Worsley, when the ground opened up a coal shaft, swallowing both the horse and the cart. Neither was recovered!
inbye
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12 years ago
Tootles, thanks for your explanations of the mining & canal operations. I've long had an interest in these underground workings, but your "ramblings" :lol: have given a much clearer understanding... :thumbsup:
Regards, John...

Huddersfield, best value for money in the country, spend a day there & it'll feel like a week........
Roger the Cat
12 years ago
Yes, many thanks again. Have you ever thought of writing a local history paper or more perhaps?
Tootles
12 years ago
Many thanks, gents. I have always been interested in the area since being a young lad, my grandfather worked for Manchester Collieries, and then the NCB, at Ashton Fields Pit. Please see the picture below, with myself aged twelve, awaiting passage at Worsley when the Eccles Bypass, (later the M62, and now the M60), was being constructed, causing hour long hold ups for the coal boats. Note the dress of the boatmen, all Wigan men, and my clogs!! I found the picture hung up in a Cheshire pub when out for a Sunday lunch some years ago, and took a piccy of the piccy!

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