Tootles
15 years ago
I can only give an account of the underground canals, and the pits still reliant on the system for ventilation as of my last trip through in 1962, which I hope may be of some small interest to those fascinated by this 'wonder of the 18th Century engineering world.'
By the above date, the system as far as Aston Fields pit, was kept open and 'usable' for ventilation and escape reasons only. It was then inspected on a weekly basis by the NCB, in conjunction with the Mines Rescue Service, itself a branch of the above.
I first met the late and much lamented Mr Frank Mullineux in 1960, when he was involved in the setting up of a small museum in the nearby town of Eccles. He seemed to be amazed that this young schoolboy showed so much interest in the underground system, and went deeply out of his way to not only explain the magnitude of what lay underground, but also arranged to have me taken down on one of the weekly inspection tours.
And so it was that I duly reported to the old pit yard in Walkden, and was kitted up with a helmet and lamp, and a 'pass' to descend to the canal level. At that time the electric cage from the pit yard was not in working order, so we crossed the mail Little Hulton road, and went through a gate into the yard of the cotton mill, (now demolished and replaced by a shopping mall.) With a great deal of effort, a large iron hatch was levered up, to expose a set of stone stairs that descended into the darkness. I cant remember how far we climbed down this stairway, which was hewn from the rock, but eventually we arrived at a small landing stage, within a high brick vaulted chamber. There were tied up two 'starvationer' ex coal box boats. I was told this name had been applied when the canal was working, because the ribs of the boats were exposed. (One such boat now remains sunken in Worsley Delph, at the main outside canal entrance to the workings. As a boy, I remember several dozen of this type, and the smaller ones used for the lower canal levels, being sunk at the same location.)
Climbing aboard, we headed 'upstream'. (Note: there is no real natural current in the system. empty boats were brought in as trains, and propelled to the workings by the boat-boys attaching roped hooks to rings in the tunnel roof, and walking backwards through the empty boats. Full boats were 'washed' out of the system, by opening the sluices at The Delph, thereby creating a current.) I was surprised to see that mostly the tunnels were unlined, with brick being used only where the natural rock was bad or fractured. Many side tunnels lead off, to old workings I was told, where once an exploring canoeist had entered, got lost, and was only found following an extensive search.
Presently we arrived at what I came to know as the inclined plane chamber, devoid of all it's ironwork, but the still with a huge block of stone surmounted by a large iron wheel in place. We walked up the plane, to the top 'pound' of the canal, and entered a much smaller boat for the onward journey. Here the roof became very low in places, forcing us to lie on our backs within the boat, whilst my guides propelled us onwards by 'legging' with their feet along the roof.
Shortly we came to what must have been a roof fall. The canal onwards was blocked, but I was told that in an emergency, men could be brought out through the shafts to the boats. I should say that at this time, the Walkden fan pit was still in full operating condition, and as we passed under the fan pit shaft, (formally a coal extraction pit in it's own right, but now with the headgear removed, and a large electric fan installed,) the air flow was considerable. For those with 'Google Earth', this pit sat directly behind Plantation Avenue, Walkden, now the site of new housing.
We returned the way we had come, once more swapping boats at The Plane, proceeded past our boarding area, and on 'downstream' towards The Delph. Here the roof was higher, the pulling rings now being set into the walls. We Passed under the former Edge Fold Pit, then also converted to a fan pit, with it's oval shaft, built that way so that repaired boats could be dropped to the lower canal levels, (four in all.) We were wearing cap lamps, of coarse, but to work down there with nothing but a candle on your cap must have been awful.
About two hundred yards from the Delph outlet, the tunnel splits into two. Outgoing full boats in the deeper channel to the left, incoming boats to the right. We then broke into the blinding daylight, much to my relief, to find a couple more safety men awaiting. After a chat and a 'brew', these two worthy's took the boat back, whilst we took their van back from Worsley to Walkden Yard.
I subsequently went on the trip again, but shortly afterwards there became a gas problem (allegedly), which stopped further inspection trips. I think that maybe the need to save money had more to do with it, as my hosts had stated that coal damp had never been a problem.
When Aston Fields pit was closed down, and all pumping stopped, the underground canal became totally flooded, and also seriously silted up, so I'm not sure what remains passable today. However, I am only too pleased to have had the opportunity to visit this fascinating system before it finally shut down.
Sorry if I have bored you with this monologue, but please feel free to ask any questions that you may wish, which I will answer to the best of my ability.
Dave.
Roger the Cat
15 years ago
Dave,

Many thanks for your very interesting monologue, I expect that members more knowledgeable than I will have lots of questions to ask. What suprises me is the amount of artefacts lying around at that time - different types of coal boat, the inclined plane wheel etc. But then were are talking half a century ago now.....

Any photos?

Nick
simonrl
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15 years ago
"Roger the Cat" wrote:



Any photos?

Nick



Would be fascinating to see if you do have any :flowers:
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Tootles
15 years ago
Thanks Nick,
Sorry, no photos. I had a Kodak Brownie camera at that time, but no flash gear. Oh for a digital camera back then! 😞
However, if interest is shown on the site, I will make a trip up to Worsley and Walkden, at least to photograph what remains, (and the places where nothing does now), and publish the results.
Dave.
simonrl
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15 years ago
"Tootles" wrote:

Thanks Nick,
Sorry, no photos. I had a Kodak Brownie camera at that time, but no flash gear. Oh for a digital camera back then! 😞
However, if interest is shown on the site, I will make a trip up to Worsley and Walkden, at least to photograph what remains, (and the places where nothing does now), and publish the results.
Dave.



Ah that re-ignites one of the recurring debates. Who had it best... I'd have loved to had seen places around N Wales 20 or 30 years ago, before untopping, collapses or flooding claimed them. But today we have all our high power LED lights and digital cameras.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Roger the Cat
15 years ago
Dave,

A photo survey would be interesting - there seem to be so many small details connected with the Worsley system which are probably only known locally.

I'm rather intrigued by your description of the stone stairway leading down to the depths of the canal - I rather like the idea of a latter-day mine explorer popping up from a manhole in the middle of M&S!

On a more serious note I have located a copy of Glen Atkinson’s The Canal Dukes Collieries - Worsley 1760—1900 (thanks, Westmine), which I will try to grab today. Without having seen what is available in published form, it would seem to me that the site is of sufficient national (or even international) importance to be the subject of further academic study and survey. I presume the entrances are Listed. After all, nearly every school textbook on British industrial history starts off with a mention of the Duke of Bridgewater and Worsley Colliery.

By the way, does anybody know how many starvationers are left – I remember seeing one at the National Mining Museum years ago, but I believe it was moved elsewhere.

Nick
Tootles
15 years ago
"Roger the Cat" wrote:

Dave,

A photo survey would be interesting - there seem to be so many small details connected with the Worsley system which are probably only known locally.

I'm rather intrigued by your description of the stone stairway leading down to the depths of the canal - I rather like the idea of a latter-day mine explorer popping up from a manhole in the middle of M&S!

On a more serious note I have located a copy of Glen Atkinson’s The Canal Dukes Collieries - Worsley 1760—1900 (thanks, Westmine), which I will try to grab today. Without having seen what is available in published form, it would seem to me that the site is of sufficient national (or even international) importance to be the subject of further academic study and survey. I presume the entrances are Listed. After all, nearly every school textbook on British industrial history starts off with a mention of the Duke of Bridgewater and Worsley Colliery.

By the way, does anybody know how many starvationers are left – I remember seeing one at the National Mining Museum years ago, but I believe it was moved elsewhere.

Nick



I must be honest and tell you Nick, that the whole area covers many miles on the surface, plus of coarse the 53 some miles underground. (Some reports say 43, but I base my statement on the maintenance men's account.) Following the stoppage of work underground, many of the pits on the surface spent many years in production, with more opening to 'chase the seams', of which there were many. Some coal seams descended at almost 90 degrees, such was (is) the nature of the ground in the area. Later surface pits included Mossley Common, Astley, Sandhole and Ellesmere, but many, many more are lost in the dust of time.
I do believe that over seventy separate entrances were made into the underground canal system, some I'm sure still survive today, and I'm also sure that under the shopping center car park at Walkden, those very same steps still survive.
I was born in the area, and before going into the Army, I spent many hours both on the canal coal barges, and also exploring the extensive pit railway system, and of coarse the pits themselves. I'm quite prepared to use my local knowledge to photograph what remains, and maybe putting this into some sort of order, as I'm 60 now, and all what I discovered as a boy will be lost when I go.
I'm even prepared to lead a small party around the surface areas of Worsley, if that became a popular concept. (?)
Many of the starvationer boats do still survive. They were built at the Worsley Canal Workshops on the then Bridgewater Estate, (The dock is still in use), many still I know remain sunken in The Delph. There is one I think also preserved in the National Waterways Museum.
Digit
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15 years ago
"Roger the Cat" wrote:

Dave,


By the way, does anybody know how many starvationers are left – I remember seeing one at the National Mining Museum years ago, but I believe it was moved elsewhere.

Nick



There is/was one at the Boat Museum in Ellesmere Port. It was very prominantly displayed on the 2nd floor of the Island Warehouse with quite a good set of notes on its origin and use. Since I saw it the museum has had a 'refurbishment' so it may have moved. I've uploaded a photo of it to the album.
~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
toadstone
15 years ago
There is quite a bit of info on this website along with photos. http://www.d.lane.btinternet.co.uk/canal.html 

There used to be a website/organisation called Steam, Coal & Canals but that appears to have vanished.

Peter.
Roger the Cat
15 years ago
Thanks Toadstone for drawing attention to Dave Lane’s website which seems to be the only reasonable internet source I have found about Worsley.

However, I notice that the last news entry on there is dated 23/6/2002 which suggests (forgive me if I’m wrong) that the site has been dormant for some time.

This comes round to my original feeling that there isn’t a lot of information out there in the public domain. Possibly the Coal Authority have archives and if I lived nearer to Manchester I would be tempted to take on a little research myself….
Tootles
15 years ago
Nick,
I had heard that all documentation relating to the underground canal had been handed to Salford Museums, but with the sad demise of their Coal Museum at Buile Hill Park some years ago, I'm not sure what happened to everything.
I intend to visit Walkden and Worsley in the next month, and will take the day to photograph everything I can, on the non-canal pits as well. I can still remember where everything was, and maybe a 'then and now', ie a written description of then with now photos may prove useful.
toadstone
15 years ago
Just had a look at Google's Streetview. In comparison to Dave Lane's photo the vegetation has once again started to take over.

This is a screen shot of the view from Worsley Road http://www.biglow.co.uk/aditnow/worsleyrdview.png 

This is from School Brow (90 deg to first take)http://www.biglow.co.uk/aditnow/schoolbrowview.png 

Finally if you zoom in you can just make out the starvationer amongst the vegetation.http://www.biglow.co.uk/aditnow/schoolbrowzoom.png 

Is this where David Cameron's Big Society comes in :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry I just couldn't help myself.

This armchair mining is great stuff though ::)
Tootles
15 years ago
In your first shot, taken from Worsley Road, just at the top of the steps in the photo, was the place where Brindley built his 'water crane'. The Delph itself was originally a quarry, and so Brindley built his crane, with a central support that reached to the top. He then diverted a stream, (later to fill the lodge which sits in the woods behind,) over the top of the quarry lip to drive a geared water wheel which in turn drove drove the crane. The underground canals started life as a way of draining away the nearby shallow surface pits, and then when the system was widened to take boats, before the Bridgewater Canal was built, coal was unloaded there for road transportation on to Manchester.

UserPostedImage

Andrew Burgess
14 years ago
Hi would you be able to give a walk around walkden? I am currently taking photos around this area and once take uploaded to Google earth 🙂
Roger the Cat
14 years ago
If I lived nearer to Worsley/Walkden area I would have liked to have joined you.

I await the photos with interest.

Nick
Tootles
14 years ago
I have sent Andy available dates, just awaiting his reply. 😮
Vanoord
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14 years ago
Just a bump for this, seeing as it's being discussed elsewhere.

A short bibliography:

Clarke, M, British underground canals associated with mines. Originally published in German in Internationales Symposium ‘Der Fuchsstollen in Walbrzych – ein europaisches Technikdenkmal’. Stiftung für Deutsch-Polnische Zusammenarbeit. ISBN 8391625117.

Egerton, Francis: Description of the underground inclined plane, executed at Walkden Moor in Lancashire by His Grace the Duke of Bridgewater. Journal of Natural Philosophy, Chemistry and the Arts. Vol. 4, pp.486-492, 1801. (Lacks plates, but see 9/542 for original).

Egerton, Francis: The inclined plane, Transactions of the Society of Arts, Vol.18, pp.265- 279, 1800. (Lacks plates, but see 9/542 for orginal).

Hassall, ER and Trickett, J P: The Duke of Bridgewater’s underground canals, The Mining Engineer, Oct 1963, pp.45-56.

llineaux, Frank: The Duke of Bridgewater’s underground canals at Worsley, reprinted from The Transactions of the Lancashire and Cheshire Antiquarian Society, Vol. 71, 152-9, 1961.

Journeys on the underground canal, 1765-1968, compiled by Ann Monaghan. (Salford), 1998.

Possibly containing underground information:

Atkinson, Glen: The Canal Duke’s collieries, Worsley 1760-1900. Swinton: Neil
Richardson, [nd].

Atkinson, Glen: The Canal Duke’s collieries, Worsley 1760-1900. 2nd ed. Swinton: Neil Richardson, 1998.

Culpin, Robin: Worsley and the Bridgewater Canal, an introduction. Rev ed. Salford: City of Salford Arts & Leisure, 1996.


http://www.library.salford.ac.uk/resources/special/bwa_add.pdf 
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
Roger the Cat
14 years ago
Wow! I'm impressed - thanks Vanoord.

I have been following the other thread - and I think I have a plan of the canal system somewhere. There were a lot of side branches which made up the 45-52 odd miles of tunnel.

I don't suppose the books have been scanned or are viewable on-line. I'll contact Salford Library and see what's available.
grahami
14 years ago
"Roger the Cat" wrote:

Wow! I'm impressed - thanks Vanoord.

I have been following the other thread - and I think I have a plan of the canal system somewhere. There were a lot of side branches which made up the 45-52 odd miles of tunnel.

I don't suppose the books have been scanned or are viewable on-line. I'll contact Salford Library and see what's available.



I photographed a 6" to the mile map of the system nay years ago - two shots are here:
🔗Personal-Album-54-Image-060[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-060[/linkphoto][/link]
🔗Personal-Album-54-Image-061[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-061[/linkphoto][/link]

I can't remember the thread I posted them in originally - along with the reference to the book published about the Underground Canals. I'll bet Vanoord can find it!

Cheers

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Vanoord
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14 years ago
Loathe though I am to mention it... they're on the previous page of this very thread! 😉

Mind you, I also overlooked it...

A slightly re-touched version of the map found elsewhere on the interweb, which makes it a bit more readable. Very low-resolution, though.

🔗Personal-Album-2-Image-66670[linkphoto]Personal-Album-2-Image-66670[/linkphoto][/link]



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