This looks to me like a tarted up ornament
what do you experts think ?

It was only on for a few minutes and now its sold

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unusual-Hand-Made-Brass-amp-Copper-Thomas-Williams-Clanny-Safety-Davy-Miners-Lamp-/151617488345?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=ovPRcrXk12jxrkZdkGRtBZNplQY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc 

Looks to me to be as described.
A replica of an early Davy lamp. Very well made but possibly using some "off the shelf" parts.
I see no reason to suggest that it was not made by E.T & W. possibly even to an old pattern or drawing.
I see no indication that it was "hand made" it is typical of the Davy lamp replicas that were used for school science demonstrations.
I see a value of around £150-00 in that condition.
A desirable object.
I.M.H.O. :smartass:

It's one of a batch of tolerably decent replica Davy and Clanny lamps that Thomas & Williams manufactured in the late 1980s. The two copper components (slightly clumsily stamped nameplate reading E T & W) and the wind-shield are not original to the Thomas & williams product however and were presumably added by its owner.

The Clanny replica utilised quite a few components from Thomas & Williams' replica safety lamp and as a result did not look quite as accurate as did the Davy replica.

Neither the Davy nor the Clanny replica sold terribly fast and production was limited to the initial batches, I believe.

The replica safety lamp sold tolerably well and remained in production from the end of the 1970s into the 1990s, although latterly "touristfied" with welsh dragon and three feathers plaques, etc. The replica safety lamp had one gauze rather than two and no lock.

In the late 1980s Thomas & Williams bought a batch of German-made replica "Agricola" type lamps in brass. There were, from memory, three types: two Italian designs and a German design; this last was closest to the lamps shown in Agricola's engravings. The two Italian designs were based on larger early and mid nineteenth century examples. All three could only be filled and lit with great care as they were not oil-tight and would burst into flames all around the lid/body join if moved. This range sold very poorly and examples from the initial batch continued to be available into the early 1990s.

I would say it was genuine. It has all the features that a proper lamp would need, particularly the lock. This is often left off 'tourist' lamps. The knurling pattern is of an old style too.
Maybe it was one of the first lamps that messrs ET&W knocked up in their garden shed prior to going into business?

I've handled a number of these replica lamps and also a few dozen genuine nineteenth century examples. Note the complete absence of dings and dents: this lamp has never been used. When T&W made the early replicas (including the Davy and Clanny types) they were a well equipped engineering works that made all the components to specifications very similar to original nineteenth century examples. However, when you place the replicas alongside their 1980s production safety lamps you can recognise the components that were re-used or adapted from their production range. The relative proportions of parts of the oil reservoirs in particular do not ring true. Whilst the replicas are certainly very good and capable of use (though are not legal for use in coal mines), they can readily be differentiated from genuine historic lamps. They also differ considerably in detail from ET&W's nineteenth century products. I stand by my identification.

Looks like I'm wrong!
As you say, they are a well made replica, unlike most.

I'm never sure about dents and dings. My own GR6 is in very good condition as I have owned it from new (nearly 50 years) and I have seen many very old lamps from tech. colleges that have never seen action.

Not only tech. college, I recall a demonstration model used in my secondary school over 55 years ago, don't know what make it was now but I doubt it has any dents or dinks.

Used to put it into a fume cupboard and introduce various gasses, H&S would have had a fit!!!:o

All the kids at my school were destined for the pit, 'A' stream administration, 'B' stream artisans, lower streams colliers !!

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Talking of school science demonstrations, I was doing a long supply stint in Eggbuckland (plimurff) and had to cover the topic of respiration/breathing/gass transfer thing. It's pretty bloody dry and boring and I thought it would be a fine thing to drag my Davy lamp in (which I used for it's purpose in mines) and demonstrate how these things actually work....

There's a misconception that it's a lamp for lighting in coal mines....which doesn't cause the methane to "go off" rather than it being an instrument to inform of atmospheric characteristics and changes.

I bought my gas monitor in, and had a big bell jar to whack it all in. I thought "this is quite a boring lesson where everyone easily gets the outcome, at least they can learn exactly how a davy lamp works!!!"

As demonstrations go, it's quite boring....watching a weeny flame change in the slightest way. The gas cap on the methane flame is pretty good as well and then the silent pop when LEL is reached.

At that point, the labtech woman, who was a flowery, middle aged, menopausal old hitler came in and went utterly off the scale at me for "using a piece of apparatus which had not been signed off by CLEAPPS" (who are the remote box ticking authority for science lessons, as graduate scientists haven't got a clue about relevant hazards). I couldn't reason with her tiny mind and there endedeth the lesson!

Bloody nanny state gone maaaad.

A close friend of mine attended Truro Cathedral school back in the late 1960's and rememberer seeing Davy's original prototype lamps and his R&D kit in a dusty old lab at the school. Nothing had been touched in there for years.
I often wonder what happened to all that stuff, and what other 'goodies' may have been lurking under the benches or tucked away in drawers.
I hate to think it was dumped into a skip by some doddery old caretaker.

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What I can't get my head round, looking at the image, is how could they see the flame in enough detail to make an analysis?

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What I can't get my head round, looking at the image, is how could they see the flame in enough detail to make an analysis?

You are right , I have a few open gauze davy's , and they are bloody awful probably one of the reasons that a lot of miners refused to use them and went back to candles ,because at least they could see with a candle
I have one with a double gauze and a smouldering cigarette would be brighter;D

What I can't get my head round, looking at the image, is how could they see the flame in enough detail to make an analysis?

You have summed up one of the problems with the original Davy lamp exactly.
The other was that in a windy situation the flame could blow out or worse could propagate a flame through the gauze to firedamp!
Thus we see almost contempory design of Stephenson and Clanny lamps with a glass window. :smartass:

Pontypridd Museum has a through-provoking display which contrasts the light from a Clanny at the start of a shift when the glass was clean, with near the end of a shift when the glass was considerably yellowed and sooty. The amount of light from the lamp with the dirty glass was dismal. You begin to appreciate the economic imperative that drove colliers to illegally open lamps to give them sufficient light to work.

I think it might be "Text Book of Ore and Stone Mining" by Le Neave Foster which has the whole breakdown of all of the different designs. When I have more time, I'll copy the pages.

I think it might be "Text Book of Ore and Stone Mining" by Le Neave Foster which has the whole breakdown of all of the different designs. When I have more time, I'll copy the pages.

That's available for download here:
https://archive.org/details/textbookoforesto00fostuoft 

Grahami

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Here we go again , never seen owt like this one
condition looks brand new , Looks like aluminium , so could actually be an old surveyors lamp , or it could be an ornament from the Indian sub continent ?

But that base ? looks like something off me grannies sideboard ;D

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-OLD-MINERS-LAMP-/271809353948?&_trksid=p2056016.m2518.l4276 

It does look like Aluminium, which would be illegal in British mines. (anyone know when it was banned?)
The brasswork and bonnet look "professional"

Other than that no clue. 😞

I believe about 1962 in British mines , after an "incident" at Hapton valley , where an explosion was attributed to a static spark from "a KitKat wrapper"
I have about 15 aluminium surveyors / miners lamps all from before that date
We could do with "Inbye" to pass comment on these , as he is a foremost authority on these items

It does look like Aluminium, which would be illegal in British mines. (anyone know when it was banned?)
The brasswork and bonnet look "professional"

Other than that no clue. :(

After the 1954 explosion at Glyncorrwg Pit.

It does look like Aluminium, which would be illegal in British mines. (anyone know when it was banned?)
The brasswork and bonnet look "professional"

Other than that no clue. :(

After the 1954 explosion at Glyncorrwg Pit.

From HMIoM H S Stephenson re Explosion Hapton valley
22 / 3 / 1962

97 : "the danger of incendive sparking from aluminium alloys has been known for some ten years now. Steps have already been taken by the NCB to limit as far as possible the use of aluminium situated underground, where the danger of inflammable gasses is remote
In view of the evidence from this disaster , I feel that another revision should be made of this instruction where aluminium equipment , which may still be used in face workings
98 : the position in regards to the use of metallic foil in wrapping confectionary and chewing tobacco is not so clearly within the control of the NCB ,other mine owners
DR Willets in his submission , suggested that b the industry / associations / organisations / mining communities consider steps which might be taken to prevent aluminium foil wrappings from being taken underground
A move which at this time is being actively considered by the safety and health committee of the coal industry national consultative council"