This post has been busy! Of course with the time change across the pond...

In any case thank you for all of the links and advice.

By the way, my reference to "ancient" of course is a relative one. Our American Revolutionary War was a mere 230 sum odd years ago. In U.S. terms, that is ancient history. As a country, Britain was already quite "ancient" by the time the America was fighting for independance, Britain having won independance from the Romans a long before that, and the druids having constructed Stone Henge long before that! It was a flip comment, so please forgive it. In geologic time, we are all bacteria, right?

My largest point being I am fascinated by the ability many of you have to explore these intact and extensive mines (a la the Mines Of Moria), many of which are just under your feet in your cities, and they are such a rich part of your history.

Best to you all, and I look forward to checking out what you sent!
David

David - you said you were seeking information - in what respect?

a dated drawing from in box which is a lot older than this
there is still lots of old riting on the walls mostly maths to work out money for stone dug
not under a city but under fields water tanks and a army base

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One thing I have not been able to re-locate in my internet searches, is the website which talked specifically about the symbols and writings used by the stone masons, mostly medieval in time frame. What I read at the time (several years ago), was that the masons used these symbols to navigate, describe the various qualities of the stone, mark the stone for future cutting purposes, mark their own unique identifiers (in other words they perhaps had symbols which identified them as individuals), and in some cases it appears that there were marks made which had to do with societies which were formed as a result of particular political or other purposes, and for which people at the time could have gotten into some real trouble had they been deciphered. I found it all rather interesting. I have not been able to locate any of this.

The other item I have not been able to locate, was on the particular shaping of some of the mine walls, which kept them from caving in. One mine I read about sloped the walls to the ceiling in a more pyramidal shape, and thus was able to excavate much larger passages that normal recatagonal/square cuts. All very interesting.

The pictures I also recall were of very high quality. I have been rather disappointed in the quality - lighting, grain, for example, of some of the pics I have viewed. A good high quality flash and/or light source taken with a newer digital camera does wonders. I wish I lived in the area, as I would sincerely like to do some exploring and take some high quality photos.
Best,
David

By the way, what does,

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?

mean??
Best,
David

This was quite helpful. Thank you. The website I saw several years ago was quite careful, as your website, to point out that what is often referred to as "Freemasonry" marks, in fact began as quite ancient quarry marks, stone mason or mason marks, individual mason marks, navigational marks, and then did in later time turn into marks which perhaps were unique indentifiers for individuals or socieities which perhaps had political or other meanings assigned to them. Highly interesting. Thanks,
David

Incredibly interesting story!
D

By the way, what does,

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?

mean??
Best,
David

I've been wondering that as well. 😉

No, actually it is a response to all those with signatures in the Merioneth dialect of Middle Welsh, Lizard flavoured Cornish, or early 8th century Anglo-Saxon and is what I am fairly sure is the Hungarian for my previous signature. 😉

By the way, what does,

Hé ! Ki kapcsolva le a villanyt ?

mean??
Best,
David

I've been wondering that as well. 😉

No, actually it is a response to all those with signatures in the Merioneth dialect of Middle Welsh, Lizard flavoured Cornish, or early 8th century Anglo-Saxon and is what I am fairly sure is the Hungarian for my previous signature. 😉

Yes, it is Hungarian. Is means:

Hey! Who switched off the lights?

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Not "My hovercraft is full of eels"?

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Close! But it isn't my hovercraft, unfortunately.

Perfect!!
D

By the way, I cut and and split of lot of wood as a young man to heat the house, and I mean a lot.

As I looked thru the pics some of the gents suggested on stone cutting, I realized, I had nothing on the poor bstrds who sat all day cutting stone a few hundred feet down. I guess I knew this intellectually, but.......
D

This was quite helpful. Thank you. The website I saw several years ago was quite careful, as your website, to point out that what is often referred to as "Freemasonry" marks, in fact began as quite ancient quarry marks, stone mason or mason marks, individual mason marks, navigational marks, and then did in later time turn into marks which perhaps were unique indentifiers for individuals or socieities which perhaps had political or other meanings assigned to them. Highly interesting. Thanks,
David

I have become very familiar with extensive quarry workings in Surrey, much of which was abandoned soon after 1600, some parts continued to about 1700. They almost certainly date back to Medieval times. The only marks we are aware of on the walls of the quarry are in chalk and many have been tentatively identified as protection marks against an evil of some kind, whether witches or whatever. These seem to be concentrated in one section which probably dates it to a time when such fears were very real - such as the 16th century. I cannot recall seeing anything much that I would consider a mason's mark. Perhaps these were most likely to appear on the dressed stone after it left the quarry. The quarrymen were producing roughly squared blocks for the masons to dress to suit the building they were working on. As for the dressing of walls and roof, in the Surrey workings I referred to, the walls are vertical with a flat roof, all nicely cut by pick. The galleries are rarely more than 6ft high and usually less so, perhaps the careful shaping of pillars was something more appropriate for quarries worked with much taller galleries.

A miscellany of pictures here:

http://www.wcms.org.uk/cgi-bin/wcmsgallery.pl?site=5;page=1 

and some here:

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Chaldon-Firestone-Quarries-Sandstone-Quarry-User-Album/ 

a lot of the bath freestone quarries have angled walls so they are wider at the bottom so as to get more stone out
early stuff just with picks and later with saws
you can work out way of wiorking from the overlaps

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Yes, well done, I remember reading at one point about the marks made to ward off "evil", or for protection as well. That was quite interesting. Thanks for the links.
D

This was quite helpful. Thank you. The website I saw several years ago was quite careful, as your website, to point out that what is often referred to as "Freemasonry" marks, in fact began as quite ancient quarry marks, stone mason or mason marks, individual mason marks, navigational marks, and then did in later time turn into marks which perhaps were unique indentifiers for individuals or socieities which perhaps had political or other meanings assigned to them. Highly interesting. Thanks,
David

I have become very familiar with extensive quarry workings in Surrey, much of which was abandoned soon after 1600, some parts continued to about 1700. They almost certainly date back to Medieval times. The only marks we are aware of on the walls of the quarry are in chalk and many have been tentatively identified as protection marks against an evil of some kind, whether witches or whatever. These seem to be concentrated in one section which probably dates it to a time when such fears were very real - such as the 16th century. I cannot recall seeing anything much that I would consider a mason's mark. Perhaps these were most likely to appear on the dressed stone after it left the quarry. The quarrymen were producing roughly squared blocks for the masons to dress to suit the building they were working on. As for the dressing of walls and roof, in the Surrey workings I referred to, the walls are vertical with a flat roof, all nicely cut by pick. The galleries are rarely more than 6ft high and usually less so, perhaps the careful shaping of pillars was something more appropriate for quarries worked with much taller galleries.

A miscellany of pictures here:

http://www.wcms.org.uk/cgi-bin/wcmsgallery.pl?site=5;page=1 

and some here:

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Chaldon-Firestone-Quarries-Sandstone-Quarry-User-Album/ 

Is there not a bit of stone down near the groutings that looks very much like a partly finished window mullion or something similar?

Someone finishing the stone to that degree must have made some markings?

To digress slightly although relevant to the subject. I was in the docs. yesterday PM and read an interesting article on Truro Cathedral. As you know this (in cathedral terms) is a very new building being only 125 years old.
But they made a big mistake in it's construction. Although mainly of granite the spires, towers and decorative work are of bath stone. Not good. It couldn't handle the Cornish climate and almost immediately started crumbling and disintergrating. Replacing it with what and the cost were the two big questions. A small article on the subject.http://www.trurocathedral.org.uk/the-big-restoration/the-problem.html 

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Another example of a building being built of a soft stone that easily eroded was the new Houses of Parliament in London, which was built in the 1840's to replace the building that was destroyed by fire in the late 1830's. The stone chosen for the outer masonary was quarried at Anston quarry, S. Yorkshire, it gives the appearance of being a sandstone but is in fact a Permian magnesium limestone, and with the heavily polluted atmosphere of London from it's coal fires etc. from the time of building until the Clean Air Act of the 1950's, this stone eroded away very easily. The beds of rock from which this stone was quarried run in a line southwards from Sheffield through the borders of Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire. Here the stone was locally known as Bolsover stone or Rotten stone.

The extension to Parliament which was built at around the time of the Millinimum was carried out in Stanton Moor sandstone, a Carboniferous sandstone which is much more durable. Again there are problems, not with the wearability of the stone but because the quarry lies within the Peak District National Park boundary and there are protests against planning applications for the extension of the quarry.

This was quite helpful. Thank you. The website I saw several years ago was quite careful, as your website, to point out that what is often referred to as "Freemasonry" marks, in fact began as quite ancient quarry marks, stone mason or mason marks, individual mason marks, navigational marks, and then did in later time turn into marks which perhaps were unique indentifiers for individuals or socieities which perhaps had political or other meanings assigned to them. Highly interesting. Thanks,
David

I have become very familiar with extensive quarry workings in Surrey, much of which was abandoned soon after 1600, some parts continued to about 1700. They almost certainly date back to Medieval times. The only marks we are aware of on the walls of the quarry are in chalk and many have been tentatively identified as protection marks against an evil of some kind, whether witches or whatever. These seem to be concentrated in one section which probably dates it to a time when such fears were very real - such as the 16th century. I cannot recall seeing anything much that I would consider a mason's mark. Perhaps these were most likely to appear on the dressed stone after it left the quarry. The quarrymen were producing roughly squared blocks for the masons to dress to suit the building they were working on. As for the dressing of walls and roof, in the Surrey workings I referred to, the walls are vertical with a flat roof, all nicely cut by pick. The galleries are rarely more than 6ft high and usually less so, perhaps the careful shaping of pillars was something more appropriate for quarries worked with much taller galleries.

A miscellany of pictures here:

http://www.wcms.org.uk/cgi-bin/wcmsgallery.pl?site=5;page=1 

and some here:

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Chaldon-Firestone-Quarries-Sandstone-Quarry-User-Album/ 

Is there not a bit of stone down near the groutings that looks very much like a partly finished window mullion or something similar?

Someone finishing the stone to that degree must have made some markings?

I don't believe in "must have".