A few captions remain to be written for the 2010 calendar and I'd be grateful for any help that can be offered. :flowers:

I'll just keep adding queries to this post as I go along and indicate as they get answered...

(i) Capelcleugh or Caplecleugh - which spelling is preferred? - Caplecleugh

(ii) In which year did Capelcleugh cease working? - 1922

(iii) Are we happy with the Wikipedia assertion that Blondins were developed at Penrhyn Quarry? - No, it seems we're not! I'll rewrite the description...

(iv) I'm a little light on history for Hendre Spar - the current draft is: Hendre Spar mine is a calcite mine on six levels, originally accessed by a steep decline which is now flooded. The mine was worked until 1981, when the adit was sealed. The spar material was crushed on site and transported to St.Helens for use in glass-making.

Does anyone have any more on the history of the mine?

(v) Beckhole iron mine - could someone please point me towards a potted history: I can find very little on this! - Sorted, thank you!

(vi) Penrhyn Quarry again - should the construction of the railway in 1798 be described as the 'Penrhyn Quarry Railway' (its later title) or the 'Llandegai Tramway'? - solved, I think, by not giving it a name..

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In reply to question iii.
I've never been very happy with the Wikipedia entry on Blondin ropeways. David Gwyn in Gwynedd: Inheriting a Revolution, p.56 writes:-
" A later system was the blondin ropeway, named after Charles Blondin who walked across Niagara Falls on a tightrope in 1852, which was developed in the Scottish stone quarries in the 1870s.John Fyfe installed a blondin at Kenmay quarry in Aberdeenshire in 1872, but they made comparatively little impact, and as late as 1886 only two other quarries in Aberdeen were using them, assisting derrick cranes. They had a lifting capacity of three tons. In 1896 Henderson's of Aberdeen patented a form of blondin cableway which quickly became popular in Gwynedd and elsewhere and which made use of the newly-available light steel ropes, in place of heavy iron ropes or chains. There were differences in detail between those used in the granite quarries of Scotland, in Gwynedd slate quarries and at Delabole, but all made use of the same principle...etc.."
No mention is made of any development at Penrhyn, although it could well be that every quarry that used J.M. Henderson's patented system would seek to modify it to their own particular needs and requirements.
Thus, I would avoid the assertion that Blondins were developed at Penrhyn.

Beckhole iron mine - could someone please point me towards a potted history: I can find very little on this!

There isn't a great deal of factual information about regarding the Beck Hole mines. At work now but I'll stick a few words together for tomorrow if it can wait that long?

I think it should be actually be Goathland Mine as well for that particular mine, one of a small group of mines near the North York Moors hamlet of Beck Hole though I'm not certain that the use of either name would necessarily be improper.

"Blondins" go back a long way - and Henderson did not invent them. He only had one patent and that quite a late one. They were in widespread and very variant use in the US quarries long before they were introduced into the UK. It is so complex I would as Gwyn says, avoid any assertions about Penrhyn. Indeed the chain inclines which preceded them originated in the papote heads of Cornwall.

I keep meaning to have a go at that Wikipedia entry, but somehow never get round to it....

Grahami

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Prince Edward Gold Mine

The Bwlch y Llu or Moel Croesau mine was first opened in 1895. The mine was renamed Prince Edward as the gold from here provided the material for the regalia used at the investiture or the Prince of Wales in 1911. When Prince Edward and Sophie Rhys-Jones were married in 1999 the gold for the wedding rings was donated by a local exploration company, continuing a long Royal tradition.

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Cheers folks, I'll edit the Penrhyn description.

Manic - thank you for that, I've modified my Prince Edward description accordingly.

I'll update the opening post and annotate in bold text as and when issues are resolved :flowers:

There isn't a great deal of factual information about regarding the Beck Hole mines. At work now but I'll stick a few words together for tomorrow if it can wait that long?

I think it should be actually be Goathland Mine as well for that particular mine, one of a small group of mines near the North York Moors hamlet of Beck Hole though I'm not certain that the use of either name would necessarily be improper.

That would be very much appreciated! 🙂

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CAPLECLEUGH is the spelling that is on the London Lead Company / abandonment plans.

The date of the abandonment plan is 1922.

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CAPLECLEUGH is the spelling that is on the London Lead Company / abandonment plans.

The date of the abandonment plan is 1922.

Cheers Mike! 🙂


Opinion so far seems to be for "Llandegai Tramway" as regards the Penrhyn Quarry Railway - does anyone else have an opinion before I settle on that?!

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The Llandegai tramway of 1798 was to connect Port Penrhyn (and its kilns) with the mills on the Ogwen where the calcined/roasted flint was crushed prior to return to the port and export to the Herculaneum Pottery at Toxteth, Liverpool. It was used for other produce, but not slate.
This tramway was then extended in 1800/1 to the quarry. Thus, it is probably best described as the Penrhyn Quarry Railway or Tramway. Have a read of the home page of the Penrhyn Quarry Railway. See:- www.penrhynrailway.co.uk
At its peak, prior to the new route and introduction of steam, this horse drawn railway carried annual loads in excess of 100,000 tons. Quite a feat!

Hendre Spar mine had its entrance blasted and filled in 1981. Prior to that the spar material was crushed on site and then transported to pilkingtons in st Helens to make specialist glass. The mine is still accessible to the flooded final level by a series of ladders from the air shaft.

The Llandegai tramway of 1798 was to connect Port Penrhyn (and its kilns) with the mills on the Ogwen where the calcined/roasted flint was crushed prior to return to the port and export to the Herculaneum Pottery at Toxteth, Liverpool. It was used for other produce, but not slate.
This tramway was then extended in 1800/1 to the quarry. Thus, it is probably best described as the Penrhyn Quarry Railway or Tramway. Have a read of the home page of the Penrhyn Quarry Railway. See:- www.penrhynrailway.co.uk
At its peak, prior to the new route and introduction of steam, this horse drawn railway carried annual loads in excess of 100,000 tons. Quite a feat!

I suppose it depends on the context of the caption then! Weren't some short sections of the Llandegai tramway abandoned? If it is one of those sections, then it could only be referred to by that name. I note that the Penrhyn Railway site refers to it as the Penrhyn Railroad - yet another title to be considered then! In fact Gwyn, I think you have contradicted yourself by referring to it as the PQ Railway if it is the earlier route that Vanoord is referring to.

I'm increasingly tempted to refer to it as "the quarry tramway" to avoid using any of the three names it used! 😉

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Excuse my ignorance but following this discussion how, technically, would this be described. It's a lithograph of the famous Chapman Slate Quarry in Pennsylvania in 1875.
🔗Chapman-Slate-Quarry-Archive-Album-Image-001[linkphoto]Chapman-Slate-Quarry-Archive-Album-Image-001[/linkphoto][/link]

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I note that the Penrhyn Railway site refers to it as the Penrhyn Railroad - yet another title to be considered then!

The term "Rail-road" comes, with reference to the Penrhyn Railway, from Thomas Tredgold's "A Practical Treatise on Rail-Roads and Carriages, 1825" as quoted by CE Lee in his 1945 book on the Penrhyn Railway.

Excuse my ignorance but following this discussion how, technically, would this be described. It's a lithograph of the famous Chapman Slate Quarry in Pennsylvania in 1875.
🔗Chapman-Slate-Quarry-Archive-Album-Image-001[linkphoto]Chapman-Slate-Quarry-Archive-Album-Image-001[/linkphoto][/link]

I presume you mean the headgear and cableways etc? They look like the single variety where instead of the moving platform as in the video, they had a sort of boom at the top to which the wagon was drawn up, then the boom winched more upright to allow the wagon to be dropped on to the lip of the quarry. To descend, a wagon was first winched up to the boom and lifted off the ground, then the boom would be allowed to droop forward, under its own weight, then the wagon released to descend down the cable.

Al ternatively, if the headgear could be set back sufficiently, and made high enough, and if the angle of the cable permitted, then the moving boom was uneccessary, but the acending/descending wagon obviously had to clear the lip of the quarry. Not easy to achieve. The moving platform system got round the problem entirely. It's not obvious from the clips but there were usually two main cables, with a carrier on each, so that as an empty wagon descended the loaded one ascended, so the steam engine only had to provide the power for the difference in load.

The steam engine/drums are NOT the same as the surviving one at BlaenyCae, as the arrangements for this "chain incline" or "inclined cableway" were different from the later horizontal (and single) blondins.

Grahami

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Draft for Hendre Spar:

Hendre Spar mine is a calcite mine on six levels, originally accessed by a steep decline which is now flooded. The mine was worked until 1981, when the adit was sealed. The spar material was crushed on site and transported to St.Helens for use in glass-making.

All comments and additions (it needs about 30% adding to the length) would be much welcomed! :flowers:

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Yes, that's what I meant Graham. Thanks very much for the explanation. :flowers:

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Righty, many thanks to RJV and SimonRail for the description of Beckhole/Goathland - I've had to trim it somewhat but it was just what the Doctor ordered, ta! :flowers:

Am I correct in presuming that the mine should be called "Goathland" on the calendar?

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Only other query is Hendre Spar - can anyone add to the following description?

Hendre Spar mine is a calcite mine on six levels, originally accessed by a steep decline which is now flooded. The mine was worked until 1981, when the adit was sealed. The spar material was crushed on site and transported to St.Helens for use in glass-making.

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Yes.

This mine is on the Goathland side of the stream near the hamlet of Beckhole. It distinguishes it from the mines on the other side of the stream away from Beckhole.

Makes sense to me anyway!

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Yes.

This mine is on the Goathland side of the stream near the hamlet of Beckhole. It distinguishes it from the mines on the other side of the stream away from Beckhole.

Makes sense to me anyway!

Cheers Simon, I'm sure Simon will make the required change :flowers:


(I'm confused now... :lol: )

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