Righty, despite wishing we could stay away from this subject, I'll interject with the NAMHO guidelines:

On the surface

1. NEVER visit a mine site without the landowner's permission. If refused, withdraw politely so that
future access negotiations are not prejudiced.
2. Follow the Countryside Code at ALL times.
3. Do NOT interfere with buildings, machinery or artefacts. These are of interest to archaeologists and
what appears to be rotten wood or rusty metal can supply vital clues to the history of the mine.
4. NEVER scatter dump materials onto adjacent land.
5. NEVER hammer outcrops.
6. Watch out for unprotected shafts and open stopes. NEVER allow children or dogs to wander about
unsupervised.

Underground

7. ALWAYS be properly equipped with helmet, spare lighting, warm clothing and sensible footwear.
8. ALWAYS tell someone on the surface where you are going and notify them when you come out.
9. The minimum safe number underground is four persons. In case of accident, one can stay with the
casualty while the other two go for help.
10. Learn and obey the rules of safety and consider joining a mining history society or caving club.
Guidelines on underground safety are available free of charge from the Association.
11. NEVER break into a mine.
12. ALWAYS securely replace any gate or cover to a mine entrance.
13. NEVER interfere with stacked rock (in the roof or walls), roof supports, pillars or other features of
a mine. If you do so, you may bring tons of rock down upon yourself and destroy features of
interest to archaeologists.
14. Use hand tools only, NEVER use explosives.
15. Collect enough specimens for your own needs only and NEVER collect for commercial gain.
16. Do NOT destroy mine "scenery" by hammering at materials which will be irreparably damaged in
so doing. Consider leaving such mineralisation in situ for future generations to enjoy.
17. NEVER collect from sites of special scientific or archaeological interest.
18. NEVER interfere with flora or fauna and avoid sites used by hibernating bats between November-
March.
19. Take your litter home with you and do not leave graffiti on walls.
20. Remember, wherever possible - TAKE only photographs. LEAVE only footprints.*

Now then... I'm going to raise a bit of an issue I have here, which is that "Take only photographs" does not sit well with using hand tools! 😉

If pressed, I might suggest that the only instances under which removal of mineral samples would be acceptable would be if someone who had a reasonable knowledge of that mine couldn't tell that something had been removed.

Anyone who wishes to collapse mineral hoppers or pull down walls (or similar) is involved in vandalism, pure and simple. Similarly, anyone who destroys large formations, eg copper sulphate flows or stalactites is also a vandal.

AdrianP's views seem to be very sensible to me and I'd suggest that a very simple code of conduct would be that the fabric and artefacts of a mine should not be disturbed or damaged in order to remove something: the 'after' should be indistinguishable to the average visitor of the mine.



* Leave only footprints indeed, but if you could also ensure that you don't trample the hobnail bootprints of the previous generation, that would also be much appreciated 😉

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I am very new to mine exploration having only done a few so far. I was down a mine a day or two back and it was the first time I have been able to see some nice original artefacts, various tools, etc etc and also parts of the mine which were covered in fluorite.

I got a real buzz out of seeing both the artefacts and the minerals and cannot understand why anyone would want to take either out of the mine.

For me, seeing these in situ only adds to the atmosphere and feeling of history.

Its the first time I have ever seen fluorite, except in photographs and those shops that sell crystals, and I found it fascinating to see it in its original form. I much prefer seeing it like this than sitting in some glass case in a shop window.

Mr Level1 long posting on the previous page has struck a nerve with me.
Basically, its OK for most people to stand by and see the other mans hobby go down the tube. I had, well more than a hobby for most of my life, it was in truth an important part of my life. I am not going to say what it was as it will certainly start an off thread discussion.
Make no mistake about it, mine exploration itself, for whatever reason, is a pastime under threat. Of course, to most, mineral collecting is 'nothing that interests me so why should I care'

Well, quoting the following may appear to be an extreme view, but it can sum up a situation quite well:

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."

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Make no mistake about it, mine exploration itself, for whatever reason, is a pastime under threat.

Never a truer word spoken, Roy. I have been trying to preach this message to anyone whose ear I can bend for quite some time now. Not with a lot of success, I hasten to add.

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Make no mistake about it, mine exploration itself, for whatever reason, is a pastime under threat.

Never a truer word spoken, Roy. I have been trying to preach this message to anyone whose ear I can bend for quite some time now. Not with a lot of success, I hasten to add.

Agreed.
To be absolutely honest I am taking huge steps backwards as regards to my wanderings and the public profile of them.
I no longer discuss my activities outside of the group of people I know well and trust. Compared to years gone by I share very little information outside that circle of people and I post virtually nothing of my exploits.
The reasons are simple, the information that disperses into the public domain is used by others for activities I do not approve of, once over when I found something interesting I would have posted a picture, now I go to great lengths to keep knowledge of it out of the public eye. I don't want something wonderful I have seen to end up on someone elses matlepiece next month, nor do I want stunning blue flourite I have seen in a northern mine to appear on ebay as an oddity. So I no longer share the information.
Only last week I had a well respected and knowledgable caver type berating me about how I shouldn't be opening gates to get to see things and I shouldn't be wandering into mines without 1st negotiating an access agreement with the land owner (even if the mine has been open and unrestricted for the last 30 years)
My philosophy is simple, I will go where I want, when I want and where possible nobody will ever know I've been. Occasionally it is impossible to do it invisibly and I will weigh up the pro's and cons for myself.
Pictures do not appear (although they are often taken) because I am unsure of how the information will be used.
Access agreements, insurance, collectors of whatever form (and I have spoken to some on here who are perfectly pleasant and reasonable people, so no offence intended), you can keep the lot of them. I will do my own thing and will only share with those that I trust. Sorry but thats just the way it is.
I've said it before but I think the higher profile of mine exploring over the last few years is a bad thing (I haven't always thought that way if I'm honest) and these days I'm only a short step from being plain unhelpful.

I guess Jagman doesn't buy books about mines as it only encourages more publicity to be generated..... :confused:

I guess Jagman doesn't buy books about mines as it only encourages more publicity to be generated..... :confused:

Actually I don't.
The few I have are pretty old, mostly over 30 years old.
Your point is?

As you have demonstrated a steadfast grasp of your principles, I have no point to make. 🙂

In answer to Adrian p's epic posting, we have our own officially elected Luddites down here in the guise of Cornwall County Council 😮 😉 😉 😉


As for the rest of it... I'm with Roy and Jagman :thumbsup:

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This isn't meant to be contentious Roy, but what do think of the Wheal Peevor renervation? Just asking out of interest because when I mentioned the Brea Tin Streaming to Allen Buckley he immediately joined the space station in orbit.

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:offtopic: :oops:

Oh Dear Malcolm, I wish you hadn't mentioned that!
Stand back!...there may be shrapnel!!
Wheal Peevor is without doubt a perfect example of ignorance in action. I thought..... Just maybe..... That lessons would have been learned from the West Basset stamps site which I used to be regular visitor to. I have been there 3 times since it was 'Sanitised' in the name of 'World Heritage' And it isn't getting any better! What a barren characterless site it is now and an eyesore to boot looking across from Carn Brea.
Every bit of world heritage has either been removed, relocated to other parts of the site, or badly restored - i.e. mortar pointing done with white St.Austell sand and not a lime mortar or even cement with beach sand to tone down the pointing - Original miners tracks bulldozed away to make way for bland looking gritted paths that bear no resemblance to the way things were in the period that they believe they are ‘trying’ to capture and portray. I can just see some large hairy guy from Pittsburg visiting the site and exclaiming ‘Jeez honey dese Cornish guys were years ahead of der time in pathway technology!’
I could go on….but back to Wheal Peevor. I have to say that they did do a good job getting the wall back on Sir Frederick’s engine house, but that I’m afraid is where any praise stops.
My good friend Dr Sharron Schwartz was livid with the way the site has been trashed, and she and I will be joining Allen Buckley on a space walk in the near future.
Probably my biggest grump is with what they did to Tresavean’s dressing floors and stamps. ( I’ll try to find the pics of the buddles etc, and post them on here) O.K. it was only the second deepest mine in Cornwall, was only the first to install a man engine, was only the first to use gas lighting IN THE MINE!!! , made probably the biggest profit in the shortest time, and paid the local lord dividends beyond avarice.
Notwithstanding…! CCC decides that Lanner needs an amenity sports area. Now where could we put a playing field???? Hmmmmm!
Several diggers, drills and numerous kilos of high explosives later and bang! No Californian stamps, no buddles, no wall remains, in short No Tresavean. Oh I must point out that they did leave what was left of an engine house and railed off an area around what was the crusher on the surface. To visit this you need a machete, a guide and a vivid imagination when you find it.
The subsequent sports field gets little use considering what it cost, floods dreadfully and is used by the local kids for racing motorbikes. The cost in lost heritage and local history is incalculable and must rate as one of the crassest pieces of planning ever. :curse: :curse: :curse:
Further; I’m glad they stopped the landfill tip at Carharrack from encroaching onto Consols and Wheal Maid valley. I had visions of seeing Taylor’s engine house half buried in household waste.
😮 😮 😮 :
If your going to do it at all do it right to start with!! Simple!

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I will go where I want, when I want and where possible nobody will ever know I've been. Occasionally it is impossible to do it invisibly and I will weigh up the pro's and cons for myself.

What a wonderful philosophy - NOT! So you just plough ahead and do what suits you and leave it to others to clear up the mess afterwards - placating angry landowners, re-arranging cancelled access agreements, repairing gates, cleaning up mines of rubbish ....

I am staggered that attitude still exists. It should have died out with the dinosaurs. That sort of attitude lost us general access to Magpie Sough. The Duke of Devonshire (who by the way paid for the digger to open the sough for us) was quite happy to let anyone go up out of fishing season but asked us not to enter during the season as he makes a big income from fishermen and did not want mud stirred up and entering the River Wye.

Most people accepted this. But NO. We had the "I will do what I want and f**k you" brigade who insisted on going up at any time and, not only that, being rude to the water bailiff. Result? Access for everyone else got cancelled and can only be had at certain special times now.

Well done! That is what your attitude does Jagman. But then you don't care less do you! I presume you embrace anarchy but the trouble with anarchy is that it only works if there are other people to grow food, build roads, pay taxes for benefits, etc!

Nice to see you have made some broad leaps there Adrian 😉

Well, as this has gone so quickly off topic (not surprising as the artefact thread has been locked), I can add my comments about access. Thinking back on which trips I have been on which are the most memorable and from which I have gained most in terms of contacts, knowledge, respect etc, it has to be the ones arranged properly with full permission through the proper channels.

In no particular order:

Geevor into Levant undersea section
Mountfield Gypsum Mine
Brewery Shaft by NORPEX winch
South Crofty deep trip
Chilmark Stone Quarry
surface exploration and prospecting of East Sussex limestone mines

No forcing or bypassing of gates, no surreptitious digging of private entrances, no looking over my shoulder in case I got spotted.

That said, it doesn't mean I haven't done the odd sneaky trip in the past, but I am left with the strong feeling about such trips that they were purely selfish affairs - I could not share the experience afterwards with friends over a pint, or show people photos, or write the trip up for others. Maybe Jagman doesn't think these interactions are important, but I think they are.

I'm mildly amused to see we've veered off-topic from a thread which was started to deal with the off-topic nature of a different thread :)

Whilst Jagman needs defence from no-one, I would observe that there are virtually no incidences where his presence somewhere has caused a site to be locked down; yet there is at least one where a site is still (and only) open due to his, and others, labours.

I don't think this topic is going to achieve much more, so I shall lock it - apologies to anyone who wished to vent their spleen some more, but I'm sure ten minutes with a cup of tea will be far more theraputic than ten minutes bashing a keyboard :)

The issue of access should, perhaps, only be considered with reference to individual sites and in many cases a forum such as this is not the place for it.

Thank you to those who have posted lengthy contributions to this thread: they have made interesting reading, in particular when contrasted to the NAMHO guidelines.

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