The gate on Rampgill, or more precisely the wall where the hinge plates are attached is starting to suffer a bit, probably because a drystone wall isn't really the best place to bolt heavy moving things to. There is also similar problem for the Smallcleugh gate. Please be careful with these gates to avoid too much damage to the stonework until we can get it sorted.

My feeling is that we should replace the individual pivot plates and catchers with an all round steel frame that can be bolted in several places to spread the load and would minimise the effect on the entrances, important since the site is listed. I

Has anyone got any experience of gating that might be appropriate bearing in mind that there is (relatively) a lot of traffic through both entrances. Also while using one of the spanner opening locks would make getting in less hassle, given the ease of access to both entrances, I think that any form of lock would get ground off in a very short space of time.

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Agreed the gates need a bit of work , however the principle that has been applied for decades over the Northern Pennines is "no locks" and this needs to be adhered to .

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Well said Nick,
However, I am becoming more agreeable to the 14 mm bolt/ nut idea, which seems to be in use on various gates around the Pennines.
I think anyone who is contemplating going underground can carry one of these with them, or an adjustable wrench.
This simply keeps out the inexperienced, and at least some thought must be made before going underground.
I guess we have all seen parties in Smallcleugh, usually I have observed, with minimum lighting and even in one case I recall without helmets, hopefully the bolt idea might deter these.
The main concern is that people could simply get lost in both mines, and where would start looking?

Having the gate pivot at just above half height and a decent amount of water flowing out of adit works well in keeping scumbags out of Capelcleugh.

I guess we have all seen parties in Smallcleugh, usually I have observed, with minimum lighting and even in one case I recall without helmets, hopefully the bolt idea might deter these.

I think the people in question here are exactly the ones who would be most likely to try everything they could to break the gate should they find it locked rather than just turn around and go home instead.

I would rather not have to deal with repairing the steelwork even if it increases the possibility of certain objectionables getting in and lost...

On a more prosaic note, I have wedged a piece of timber across the entrance just above the gate to try and keep the stones in place. It probably won't last that long but I am looking at getting some steel frames made so hopefully it will last long enough.

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I'm not aware of any problem of numpties getting lost in there up until now, so no need for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Some of those sumps seem to be getting shallower though... :devil:

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Whilst I have a lot of sympathy with the non lock idea, I am also old enough to remember the hue and cry that erupted after the fatality in waterblast sump in Smallcleugh.
All the media took the view that these mines should be shut permanently, but after Norpex placed a rail across it and the reasonable view of the coroner, things settled down.
Perhaps you have not seen the night lights to the Halloween parties and the likes!
I still think a nut and bolt is simple enough to operate and should not result in damage to the gates..
Capelcleugh is rather deep!

Capelcleugh is rather deep!

Innit lovely though?

How many people go there just to scrawl their name in the flats?

I have absolutely no objection to a bolt being put on and carrying a spanner.

I just don't think it will last 5 minutes.

I still think a nut and bolt is simple enough to operate and should not result in damage to the gates..

To someone without a spanner, a bolt is the same as a lock, and may provoke the same reaction.

Bolted stone mines in the SW seem to suffer regular damage to gates. Whether this is unprepared people wanting to get in, or others acting on principle, who knows?

One problem in mines with high traffic is if a bolt is not done up tight, then those without a spanner can get in. And then cannot get out if another group do up the bolt correctly.

I still think a nut and bolt is simple enough to operate and should not result in damage to the gates..

To someone without a spanner, a bolt is the same as a lock, and may provoke the same reaction.

Bolted stone mines in the SW seem to suffer regular damage to gates. Whether this is unprepared people wanting to get in, or others acting on principle, who knows?

One problem in mines with high traffic is if a bolt is not done up tight, then those without a spanner can get in. And then cannot get out if another group do up the bolt correctly.

Any mine explorer should be carrying a basic tool set and a universal access key (17/19mm or adjustable spanners)to unbolt some gates or grills anyway.

Mines are usually gated and grilled so why people wouldn't be carrying this is beyond me.

Or as a northener would say:

Mines aren't usually gated and grilled so why
people would be carrying this is beyond me. ;)

(secured gates anyway....)

Or as a northener would say:

Mines aren't usually gated and grilled so why
people would be carrying this is beyond me. ;)

(secured gates anyway....)

I see, well its alright for some!

As ColinA says. Access in Nenthead land has been as it is for decades and has not caused issues, if it ain't broke.....

An official response from COMRU might be useful.

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When will mine explorers realise that what we get away with is on the margins of legality? There 'aint no right to go in old mines without permission. We also need to make sure the inexperienced explorer does not cause the loss of ALL access.
Please wake up.

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When will mine explorers realise that what we get away with is on the margins of legality? There 'aint no right to go in old mines without permission. We also need to make sure the inexperienced explorer does not cause the loss of ALL access.
Please wake up.

If yourself and gNick (as CMHS committee members) think that bolts are a good idea for continued access then just go for it, I doubt you're going to get any genuine objections from anyone on here to carrying an adjustable spanner.

As I mentioned before I just get the feeling that "A.N. Other" the inexperienced explorer will be trying to break them off and throw them away regularly when they turn up and find them without a spanner.

I could be wrong, just my opinion.

To someone with out a spanner, a bolt is the same as a lock, and may provoke the same reaction.

Thus implying that someone would rather traipse up there with a hacksaw or cutting tool than with a spanner, - -DUR!

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To someone without a spanner, a bolt is the same as a lock, and may provoke the same reaction.

Thus implying that someone would rather traipse up there with a hacksaw or cutting tool than with a spanner, - -DUR!

Yet they do...