funny enough on this subject ,today i heard that there is a small group looking to open an adit up at fferna . may be not true but im waiting for snow to ****** off then im going for a look if its true .....

Thursday? :thumbsup:

---

Hmm, I'm not having a pop at anybody, but I have to wonder given earlier in this thread somebody said they'd heard Moel Fferna described as full of litter if digging an adit out is a particularly good idea. On one hand it's a fair trek up to the mine, but on the other if it becomes a walk-in then surely it'll get even worse in there?

The amount of litter on the CRTT last weekend was a bit depressing. Sandwich packets, wrappers, drink bottles.Didn't have room to carry any of it out, another time.

---

I have to agree with Simon, how can opening up an Adit be a good thing?

The main reason Moel Fferna has survived so intact is because Chavs don't know how to abseil.

😢

---

I don't for a minute think Steve is suggesting it's a good thing, or that he intended to do it, but rather was wanting to take a look if it has been done. I heard the same rumours, and wanted to take a look.

---

I entirely agree - Steve wasn't for a moment suggesting it was a good thing, he was just reporting it.

---

I have to agree with Simon, how can opening up an Adit be a good thing?

The main reason Moel Fferna has survived so intact is because Chavs don't know how to abseil.

;(

Sadly it's not only chavs that do this, It's regular mine explorers too, I have seen this in many mines now that are difficult to get in, it's just the way people are, it will never change.

---

i agree with brakeman ,mine explorers need to clean up their own rubbish too ,batterys for instance . i can honestly say i have never dropped rubbish in any mine ,odd body maybe 😉 as i said i will keep an eye on this situation and then act on what i find ....

It's really sad there's so much littering.

If Moel Fferna is as bad as people are saying then perhaps we can give it a clean up on the 11th May trip. There will be enough of us. If we haul out a load of bin bags, photograph it amd stick it up on all the forums it might draw peoples' attention to it.

---

It's a problem but inescapable I think, unless people make the effort through willpower (a lot of people can't be bothered) to respect other environments it will always happen, no matter how much we clean up, though cleaning up is a great start, it happens everywhere. I've seen slate mines with cookers and mattresses inside, why would you take a mattress in there anyway the mine was soaking? 😮

---

It's a problem but inescapable I think, unless people make the effort through willpower (a lot of people can't be bothered) to respect other environments it will always happen, no matter how much we clean up, though cleaning up is a great start, it happens everywhere. I've seen slate mines with cookers and mattresses inside, why would you take a mattress in there anyway the mine was soaking? :o

To dump it most likely. Fly tipping is revolting. And more often than not the idiots that dump their junk and old sofa somewhere scenic have driven further than their local council tip to do so. But then they're probably driving an untaxed and uninsured car...

---

It's really sad there's so much littering.

If Moel Fferna is as bad as people are saying then perhaps we can give it a clean up on the 11th May trip. There will be enough of us. If we haul out a load of bin bags, photograph it amd stick it up on all the forums it might draw peoples' attention to it.

Exactly what I had in mind. On every underground related forum. I have no problem being blunt :devil: if the problem is bad enough to need "hammering home"

---

It's a problem but inescapable I think, unless people make the effort through willpower (a lot of people can't be bothered) to respect other environments it will always happen, no matter how much we clean up, though cleaning up is a great start, it happens everywhere. I've seen slate mines with cookers and mattresses inside, why would you take a mattress in there anyway the mine was soaking? :o

To dump it most likely. Fly tipping is revolting. And more often than not the idiots that dump their junk and old sofa somewhere scenic have driven further than their local council tip to do so. But then they're probably driving an untaxed and uninsured car...

Aye but cretinous local councils encourage
them by only opening a few hours a day
which leaves a lot of mindless f-wits
driving around with cars full of rubbish
they don't want to take home.

Why you write that as a haiku 😉

Good point though. My local council tip has a policy of "if you arrive with a 4 wheel trailer you're trade" and charge you. Which is bonkers. It's my father's trailer. He's a retired dentist, this is a pile of soil and rocks from my garden and I ain't trade.

I'm going off topic :ban:

---

Just take two of the wheels off around the corner.....

(hint: opposite sides)

Why you write that as a haiku

Cos I can't count. :tongue:

Local council tip
Only opens for short time
Rubbish now in hedge

😉

---

Part of the problem with littering in mines, is unfortunately, a knock on effect from the actions of the miners themselves.
There are many underground places where litter has been left for may years by the people who worked there.
One of the worst examples of this is in one particular chamber I can think of in N Wales, where a thousand black bags would be needed to make a dent in the rubbish pile. A rubbish pile that was created by, and left by the miners themselves.
It follows then that if the modern day explorer does not possess an intrinsic respect for the environments they operate in, then they will just see their actions as 'more of the same'.
The problem of course, is that to reach them and make a difference, their morals and values have to be challenged at a fundamental level. This is an almost impossible battle, so unfortunately it is always going to be down to the same people to try and set an example in the hope that others will follow.
While we are talking about littering mines, equally reprehensible as far as I am concerned, is the practice of spray painting arrows over every available surface by those explorers who cannot seem to find their way around fairly simplistic systems without them. They are at least as visually repulsive as seeing sweetie wrappers and beer cans on the floor, and for me, seriously detract from the whole 'exploration' experience.

---

The problem of course, is that to reach them and make a difference, their morals and values have to be challenged at a fundamental level. This is an almost impossible battle, so unfortunately it is always going to be down to the same people to try and set an example in the hope that others will follow.

Do you really think its getting worse ?

I've never seen anyone I've been out with drop as much as a sweetie wrapper.

The majority of litter you tend to see in the northern lead mines seems to be the product of 70's - 80's mineral collectors.

(not trying to wind anyone up with that comment, just a statement of what I've personally observed over the years)

Think its probably differs in various areas? N Wales mines are generally fairly easy going and well publicised so they probably attract a lot of those who just want to go and do the light paintingz and burn things underground.

The endless shale collapses & deep water in a lot of northern mines might not hold the same appeal?

I certainly regularly see 'new' litter in some NW locations. However, as mentioned already, it does tend to be in the easily accessible and well known places.
A lot of 'harder to reach' or more technical locations tend to be litter free or attract less.
So perhaps the logical explanation is that there are two distinct categories of explorer?
I have to agree that I have never seen people who explore with me drop any litter. On the other hand I work extensively with people who, shall we say, have slightly less in the way of morale scruples, and I am constantly telling them to pick up their litter ::)

---