Hello,

I've just been messing around with the Google Satellite function and it has raised a question, which everyone probably knows, but it would quench my curiosity.

I was looking at the superb incline system leading down from Moelwyn Slate mine, and i noticed that there was a long, what looks like a tramway leaving the workings going in the direct of Creosor village. Alun John Richards does mention a pack horse route so that's probably the first mystery solved.

My main query is that there seems to be a tramway leaving the Moelwyn workings, joining the upper levels of Rhosydd conveniently swerving around the collapses. Does anyone know what this is?

It'll probably turn out to be a boundary wall or something relatively new, but it does look like a tramway of sorts.

Thanks

Pete

Er, which side?

IIRC (and without checking the books!) the quarries on the 'Moelwyn' side have a long tramway that runs round to the back side of the ridge that Croesor sits on.

Originally, there was an 'up' incline to the top of the ridge and then back down again; and ultimately down to the valley floor then out along the Croesor tramway.

The 'down' incline (ie on the Cwm Croesor side) was originally in two halves, although later on the building of a tunnel under the hillside enabled the 'up' incline to be taken out of use.

On the 'down' side, the lower incline was extended up to the level of the tunnel; the upper incline was then taken out of use.

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If, of course, we're talking about the route that runs round the south/east side of the Moelwyns, then it's a rather rocky path - somewhere I have some photos of it, taken near-enough exactly a year ago.

It may have been used by pack horses, but I would be surprised if it brought out any sort of bulk.

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Hi.

there was a track built in 1825 to connect Moelwyn Quarry to the track that went up from Tanygrisiau and over the Bwlch Cwmorthin (where Rhosydd 9 Mill was built). it dropped down to meet the Maentwrog - Aberglaslyn turnpike at Croesor village. Rhosydds earliest outlet was by a well built pathwhich leads from its highest workings round the slopes above where LLyn Stwlan is now, to join this track for Moelwyn Quarry.

does this make sense with the map you are looking at ??

llion

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Incidentally...

I'd reckon that if you had a look round a lot of Snowdonia on Google Earth, then you'd find a lot of walkers routes which have been created over the last 50 years - although it will be dependent on the time of year the aerial pictures were taken.

The fact that the track is so visible is probably as much down to modern walking as it is to its original establishment.

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yep :thumbsup:

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If you mean the one that runs above Llyn Stwlan (the upper reservoir) it's a foot path.

You're right the aerial pictures are intriguing. I often use this site as well as google maps.
http://www.multimap.com/maps/ 
The pictures are taken at different times and often features show in one but not the other, take the light coloured cross about half way between Croesor and Fron-boeth I've not noticed on the mountain side 😉 . Also it will switch between OS map and aerial pictures which is realy useful. Follow the tram way across Moelwyn Mawr and there is a prominant zig zag path decending from it (when the light/snow is right it's easy to see from Porthmadog) but not shown on any maps.

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Just taken my own advice and had a better look switching between aerial and OS and I think you might be right, there is an unfenced / partialy fenced or walled track marked which doesn't entirly follow the rights of way but does closely follow the contours. I was wondering where to go for a walk, think I'll have to go and take a look soon.

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I've walked this route and it does look tramwayish, but very steep if it was. I've never seen any reference to it being a tramway and someone told me (can't remember the source I'm afraid) that it was a road. If you follow it from Moelwyn you will come to Pant Mawr and Fron Boeth quarries which did have a connection through a tunnel to Croesor.

I didn't think this topic would cause this much discussion he he. I went to Moelwyn quite a while ago and what made me wonder was that you could see a faint ridge that went around the inside of the mountain, above the resevoir. I did have a little look on the OS after i saw it and there were traces, but it was only the other day when i was using google that it twigged that i could have a better aerial look. It does seem conveinient that it avoids the collapses which are relatively new. I'm no expert but i imagine it must have been a route that has been used quite a bit in order to show up on the Satellite function. The explanation from Llion does make sense to me. I'm not exactly local, and i'm not sure when i'll be heading back up there but if anyone does can you let me know of any curious findings?

Thanks

Makes for a very nice walk on a warm day - I'd be tempted to start at Croesor & up the side of the valley, behind the ruined mills at Croesor & across to Rhosydd, past the workings and then round above Stwlan, then joining the tramway at the top.

It's got a lot of mines to amble past, but is also swmbo-friendly :thumbup:

Not sure if it's a question for this topic, but has anyone been into Pant Mawr recently?

The gazetteer suggests it may have some quite substantial workings, but I've never really seen anything that proves they're still accessible.

There's also a suggestion that it connects through to Moelwyn slate mine, although having been into Moelwyn, I'm not 100% convinced I'd want to try it!

Slightly further down the hills, Fron Boeth seems to have a few chambers which are accessible (I managed to wipe all my photos sadly) and possibly a second level that could do with climbing up to.

Must get round to going back there 🙂

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A lot of old railways are quite prominant features, even when grown over, much of the Gorseddau tramway is marked on modern aviation charts. Sounds like a nice walk Vanoord might do it over the bank holiday.

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We had a look at Moelwyn, Pant Mawr and Fron Boeth one day last year. Pant Mawr is quite extensive although most of the adits are waist deep in water. Quite a bit of interest to see here and a through trip top to bottom would be possible with srt. Fron Boeth is open cast apart from the tramway tunnel.

There is no link through to Moelwyn - the confusion might stem from the fact that floors in the three quarries were numbered consecutively for some reason.

Which is the one with the boiler at the adit then?

That's got perhaps a dozen chambers accessible iirc?

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Thanks Llion for your explanation, I'd been wondering about the track through Pant Mawr valley. Had another look at Hammond's track, it does follow the contours but only as close as a mountain side will let it! I'll now agree with the steep bit, I make it about 1:7 in places between Rhosydd and Moelwyn and 1:4 up to Bwlch Stwlan from the map.

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Forgot about the adit behind the boiler. That is Fron Boeth quarry by the look of it. A through trip is possible then from the top of Pant Mawr to the adit by the boiler.

Forgot about the adit behind the boiler. That is Fron Boeth quarry by the look of it. A through trip is possible then from the top of Pant Mawr to the adit by the boiler.

It is?

That's got a bit of potential then! 😮

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if there is anybody going up that way for a look can u let me know please ,pant mawr, fronboeth are on my list of mines to go to next,amongst others in the area.

Nice picture here of the track.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/610789 

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That's great i was looking for a picture, it looks quite prominent with what looks like some nice embankment work.